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	<title>Comments on: Brooklyn College: how not to advocate for Israel</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 19 May 2013 01:13:00 +0300</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Steve Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95758</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Kuperberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95758</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen and hallelujah Dani!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen and hallelujah Dani!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95760</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Kuperberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95760</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen and hallelujah Dani!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen and hallelujah Dani!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Laura Ben-David</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95656</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura Ben-David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95656</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well said Dani. Great insight into the various aspects of both Israel advocacy, and dealing with anti-Israel sentiments on campus. (And nice to see you on TOI!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Dani. Great insight into the various aspects of both Israel advocacy, and dealing with anti-Israel sentiments on campus. (And nice to see you on TOI!)</p>
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		<title>By: Dani Klein</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95658</link>
		<dc:creator>Dani Klein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 04:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right. And it&#039;s not that the students weren&#039;t battling this on campus. They were. I&#039;m in touch with them. It&#039;s the off campus events that took place that spun this out of control that made it as large as it was. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. And it&#039;s not that the students weren&#039;t battling this on campus. They were. I&#039;m in touch with them. It&#039;s the off campus events that took place that spun this out of control that made it as large as it was. </p>
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		<title>By: Scott Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95652</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Kuperberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dani - Nice article. As a fellow BC alum (Class of 2001), and a former leader on campus (president of Hillel, president of PHD, senior editor of Excelsior, etc., etc.) I strongly agree with both points of your argument. What everyone on both Jewish sides of this issue forget is that Brooklyn College is not like other campuses. It has a very large, very public orthodox jewish population. It&#039;s also extraordinarily apathetic to campus matters. They don&#039;t need campus as a support for their Jewish life. And they&#039;re not intimidated by anti-Israel speakers on campus. BC has one of the largest Hillels in the country, and a dozen other Jewish and zionist groups. You&#039;re correct. This controversy was brought to light by off-campus folks who are generally more interested in their own fame than the good of the students. 

I&#039;m actually less concerned about the conduct of Dean Morales and the administration. I was thrown out of a good number of events in my day. I did less than the 4 who came to the BDS talk, but was still removed. It&#039;s all part of the fun of protest. But in college, people take everything so seriously. I encouraged the students who opposed the event to organize their own. That&#039;s how we always did it. Hillel had its Israeli Independence Day carnival, and the ASA (or whatever it was at the time) would have their Naqba Day event. If this BDS event happened at UC-Irvine or Nebraska or another school where the Jewish community isn&#039;t as strong, I&#039;d probably take a different position. But like you said, Israel supporters have to pick their battles, and this wasn&#039;t one of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dani &#8211; Nice article. As a fellow BC alum (Class of 2001), and a former leader on campus (president of Hillel, president of PHD, senior editor of Excelsior, etc., etc.) I strongly agree with both points of your argument. What everyone on both Jewish sides of this issue forget is that Brooklyn College is not like other campuses. It has a very large, very public orthodox jewish population. It&#039;s also extraordinarily apathetic to campus matters. They don&#039;t need campus as a support for their Jewish life. And they&#039;re not intimidated by anti-Israel speakers on campus. BC has one of the largest Hillels in the country, and a dozen other Jewish and zionist groups. You&#039;re correct. This controversy was brought to light by off-campus folks who are generally more interested in their own fame than the good of the students. </p>
<p>I&#039;m actually less concerned about the conduct of Dean Morales and the administration. I was thrown out of a good number of events in my day. I did less than the 4 who came to the BDS talk, but was still removed. It&#039;s all part of the fun of protest. But in college, people take everything so seriously. I encouraged the students who opposed the event to organize their own. That&#039;s how we always did it. Hillel had its Israeli Independence Day carnival, and the ASA (or whatever it was at the time) would have their Naqba Day event. If this BDS event happened at UC-Irvine or Nebraska or another school where the Jewish community isn&#039;t as strong, I&#039;d probably take a different position. But like you said, Israel supporters have to pick their battles, and this wasn&#039;t one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Kuperberg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95654</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Kuperberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95654</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dani - Nice article. As a fellow BC alum (Class of 2001), and a former leader on campus (president of Hillel, president of PHD, senior editor of Excelsior, etc., etc.) I strongly agree with both points of your argument. What everyone on both Jewish sides of this issue forget is that Brooklyn College is not like other campuses. It has a very large, very public orthodox jewish population. It&#039;s also extraordinarily apathetic to campus matters. They don&#039;t need campus as a support for their Jewish life. And they&#039;re not intimidated by anti-Israel speakers on campus. BC has one of the largest Hillels in the country, and a dozen other Jewish and zionist groups. You&#039;re correct. This controversy was brought to light by off-campus folks who are generally more interested in their own fame than the good of the students. 

I&#039;m actually less concerned about the conduct of Dean Morales and the administration. I was thrown out of a good number of events in my day. I did less than the 4 who came to the BDS talk, but was still removed. It&#039;s all part of the fun of protest. But in college, people take everything so seriously. I encouraged the students who opposed the event to organize their own. That&#039;s how we always did it. Hillel had its Israeli Independence Day carnival, and the ASA (or whatever it was at the time) would have their Naqba Day event. If this BDS event happened at UC-Irvine or Nebraska or another school where the Jewish community isn&#039;t as strong, I&#039;d probably take a different position. But like you said, Israel supporters have to pick their battles, and this wasn&#039;t one of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dani &#8211; Nice article. As a fellow BC alum (Class of 2001), and a former leader on campus (president of Hillel, president of PHD, senior editor of Excelsior, etc., etc.) I strongly agree with both points of your argument. What everyone on both Jewish sides of this issue forget is that Brooklyn College is not like other campuses. It has a very large, very public orthodox jewish population. It&#039;s also extraordinarily apathetic to campus matters. They don&#039;t need campus as a support for their Jewish life. And they&#039;re not intimidated by anti-Israel speakers on campus. BC has one of the largest Hillels in the country, and a dozen other Jewish and zionist groups. You&#039;re correct. This controversy was brought to light by off-campus folks who are generally more interested in their own fame than the good of the students. </p>
<p>I&#039;m actually less concerned about the conduct of Dean Morales and the administration. I was thrown out of a good number of events in my day. I did less than the 4 who came to the BDS talk, but was still removed. It&#039;s all part of the fun of protest. But in college, people take everything so seriously. I encouraged the students who opposed the event to organize their own. That&#039;s how we always did it. Hillel had its Israeli Independence Day carnival, and the ASA (or whatever it was at the time) would have their Naqba Day event. If this BDS event happened at UC-Irvine or Nebraska or another school where the Jewish community isn&#039;t as strong, I&#039;d probably take a different position. But like you said, Israel supporters have to pick their battles, and this wasn&#039;t one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Estee Mendelson Singer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95542</link>
		<dc:creator>Estee Mendelson Singer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95542</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am so proud  to call Dani Klein my son in law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so proud  to call Dani Klein my son in law.</p>
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		<title>By: Herbert Kaine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95540</link>
		<dc:creator>Herbert Kaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dani, you seem to contradict yourself in this article. For existence, when anti-Israel advocates block pro-Israel speech at UC Irvine, Concordia, etc, somehow it doesn&#039;t become a free speech issue. However, when we protest at Brooklyn &quot;college&quot;, it does become a free speech issue. We have followed the &quot;nuanced&quot; argument for 20 years, and we have been in constant defeat. By weeding out Jewish names at a Brooklyn &quot;college&quot; event, the administration of this &quot;college&quot; has sanctioned anti-Semitism and ghettoization of Jews. Therefore, just as physician John Snow stopped a cholera epidemic in London by dismantling the well where the cholera came from, we must drain the swamp of anti-Semitism by dismantling Brooklyn &quot;college&quot;. This would mean ending public funding to a institute guilty of anti-Semitism and not respecting degrees from Brooklyn &quot;college&quot; in the workplace.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dani, you seem to contradict yourself in this article. For existence, when anti-Israel advocates block pro-Israel speech at UC Irvine, Concordia, etc, somehow it doesn&#039;t become a free speech issue. However, when we protest at Brooklyn &quot;college&quot;, it does become a free speech issue. We have followed the &quot;nuanced&quot; argument for 20 years, and we have been in constant defeat. By weeding out Jewish names at a Brooklyn &quot;college&quot; event, the administration of this &quot;college&quot; has sanctioned anti-Semitism and ghettoization of Jews. Therefore, just as physician John Snow stopped a cholera epidemic in London by dismantling the well where the cholera came from, we must drain the swamp of anti-Semitism by dismantling Brooklyn &quot;college&quot;. This would mean ending public funding to a institute guilty of anti-Semitism and not respecting degrees from Brooklyn &quot;college&quot; in the workplace.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Gutman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95518</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Gutman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95518</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Totally agree. I went to SFSU 2002-2004, also a very anti ISRAEL campus. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Totally agree. I went to SFSU 2002-2004, also a very anti ISRAEL campus. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dani Klein</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95520</link>
		<dc:creator>Dani Klein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tzvi, what I&#039;m suggesting here is that there are many different messages or points to make on campus, not all are appropriate at all times. Additionally, HOW a message is given will greatly determine how it is perceived by the rest of the public. While the Jews here cried foul very publicly, everyone else responded &quot;free speech&quot;. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tzvi, what I&#039;m suggesting here is that there are many different messages or points to make on campus, not all are appropriate at all times. Additionally, HOW a message is given will greatly determine how it is perceived by the rest of the public. While the Jews here cried foul very publicly, everyone else responded &quot;free speech&quot;. </p>
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		<title>By: Dani Klein</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95522</link>
		<dc:creator>Dani Klein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 20:11:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed. I&#039;m suggesting that the off campus activists work with the students, not remain on the sidelines.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. I&#039;m suggesting that the off campus activists work with the students, not remain on the sidelines.</p>
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		<title>By: David Olesker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95500</link>
		<dc:creator>David Olesker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:04:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95500</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent analysis, Dani Klein. You highlight both the real problem faced by Jewish students at BC (the indifference of the administration to their rights and sensitivities) and the difficulties in establishing a successful defense for them.

However, you can&#039;t posit a blanket rule that the students on the spot are always right. It&#039;s true that they are usually better informed about campus culture and current events, but that advantage is offset by a lack of institutional memory. No one at BC would have been aware of your decade old (but highly relevant) run in with the same Dean of Students unless you had been there to tell them about it.

More significantly, students can&#039;t always be relied on to have a firm understanding of the issues at stake. On US campuses Jewish students can usually spot an attack on their rights or the rights of there fellow Jews in Israel; that assumption can&#039;t always be depended on in other countries. 

If one of the challenges that Jewish students in the US face might be an overly &quot;gung ho&quot; attitude from off campus supporters, elsewhere they can face the problem of themselves having bought into the anti-Israel conceptual frame and needing off campus role models to show them that an other approach exists.

So let&#039;s give due weight to the insights of the Jewish students who are at the bleeding edge of Israel advocacy, but let&#039;s not make the mistake of thinking they are any more infallible than members of the off campus Jewish establishment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent analysis, Dani Klein. You highlight both the real problem faced by Jewish students at BC (the indifference of the administration to their rights and sensitivities) and the difficulties in establishing a successful defense for them.</p>
<p>However, you can&#039;t posit a blanket rule that the students on the spot are always right. It&#039;s true that they are usually better informed about campus culture and current events, but that advantage is offset by a lack of institutional memory. No one at BC would have been aware of your decade old (but highly relevant) run in with the same Dean of Students unless you had been there to tell them about it.</p>
<p>More significantly, students can&#039;t always be relied on to have a firm understanding of the issues at stake. On US campuses Jewish students can usually spot an attack on their rights or the rights of there fellow Jews in Israel; that assumption can&#039;t always be depended on in other countries. </p>
<p>If one of the challenges that Jewish students in the US face might be an overly &quot;gung ho&quot; attitude from off campus supporters, elsewhere they can face the problem of themselves having bought into the anti-Israel conceptual frame and needing off campus role models to show them that an other approach exists.</p>
<p>So let&#039;s give due weight to the insights of the Jewish students who are at the bleeding edge of Israel advocacy, but let&#039;s not make the mistake of thinking they are any more infallible than members of the off campus Jewish establishment.</p>
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		<title>By: צבי גורדון</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95496</link>
		<dc:creator>צבי גורדון</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95496</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The first half of this article was really good. I could not agree more that the positions of pro-Israel groups like AIPAC which blindly support anything Israel says or does are harming the pro-Israel argument overall. In addition when pro-Israel activists (or politicians) attempt to silence an event it makes it seem as if the pro-Israel camp has something to hide, actually giving extra legitimacy to the claims of the Palestinian activists. The response to a BDS-style event should not be an attempt to shut it down, but should be a counter event that directly deals with the accusations made against Israel. I wouldn&#039;t say that the problem with the rhetoric is that it doesn&#039;t come off sounding rational, because the rhetoric is irrational. It is irrational to support Israel at all costs. You are 100% right that to support Israel at all costs harms the credibility of the pro-Israel activists on campus. Its time that people stop blindly supporting Israel and start supporting Zionism if they to affect real change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first half of this article was really good. I could not agree more that the positions of pro-Israel groups like AIPAC which blindly support anything Israel says or does are harming the pro-Israel argument overall. In addition when pro-Israel activists (or politicians) attempt to silence an event it makes it seem as if the pro-Israel camp has something to hide, actually giving extra legitimacy to the claims of the Palestinian activists. The response to a BDS-style event should not be an attempt to shut it down, but should be a counter event that directly deals with the accusations made against Israel. I wouldn&#039;t say that the problem with the rhetoric is that it doesn&#039;t come off sounding rational, because the rhetoric is irrational. It is irrational to support Israel at all costs. You are 100% right that to support Israel at all costs harms the credibility of the pro-Israel activists on campus. Its time that people stop blindly supporting Israel and start supporting Zionism if they to affect real change.</p>
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		<title>By: צבי גורדון</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/brooklyn-college-how-not-to-advocate-for-israel/#comment-95498</link>
		<dc:creator>צבי גורדון</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=102744#comment-95498</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The first half of this article was really good. I could not agree more that the positions of pro-Israel groups like AIPAC which blindly support anything Israel says or does are harming the pro-Israel argument overall. In addition when pro-Israel activists (or politicians) attempt to silence an event it makes it seem as if the pro-Israel camp has something to hide, actually giving extra legitimacy to the claims of the Palestinian activists. The response to a BDS-style event should not be an attempt to shut it down, but should be a counter event that directly deals with the accusations made against Israel. I wouldn&#039;t say that the problem with the rhetoric is that it doesn&#039;t come off sounding rational, because the rhetoric is irrational. It is irrational to support Israel at all costs. You are 100% right that to support Israel at all costs harms the credibility of the pro-Israel activists on campus. Its time that people stop blindly supporting Israel and start supporting Zionism if they to affect real change.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first half of this article was really good. I could not agree more that the positions of pro-Israel groups like AIPAC which blindly support anything Israel says or does are harming the pro-Israel argument overall. In addition when pro-Israel activists (or politicians) attempt to silence an event it makes it seem as if the pro-Israel camp has something to hide, actually giving extra legitimacy to the claims of the Palestinian activists. The response to a BDS-style event should not be an attempt to shut it down, but should be a counter event that directly deals with the accusations made against Israel. I wouldn&#039;t say that the problem with the rhetoric is that it doesn&#039;t come off sounding rational, because the rhetoric is irrational. It is irrational to support Israel at all costs. You are 100% right that to support Israel at all costs harms the credibility of the pro-Israel activists on campus. Its time that people stop blindly supporting Israel and start supporting Zionism if they to affect real change.</p>
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