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	<title>Comments on: Criticizing Israeli policy: a right, not a privilege</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/</link>
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		<title>By: Daniel Haboucha</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79782</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Haboucha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you, Mr. Davison, in that it seems obvious to me that (deontologically) you have every bit as much right to express an opinion on any Canadian policy as I do on Israeli policy. That said, I think I am probably more likely to exercise the aforementioned right than you are, for the reasons mentioned in my article... First, because while the Israeli government sometimes claims to represent my interests, the Canadian government has never claimed to represent yours. And second, closely following on the previous point, because I suspect that I (like many people, for good reasons or bad) am far more concerned about certain Israeli practices than you are about any of Canada&#039;s.

As you&#039;ve alluded to, the responsible exercise of the right to express an opinion involves informing oneself about the subject matter at hand (a task made that much easier by the existence of media outlets such as this one). Nevertheless, one of the main points in my article was that we as a society have decided that ignorance does not disqualify someone from the right to an opinion (though, again as you noted, it certainly might undermine the substance of the opinion itself). No less troubling than ignorance itself, perhaps, is the frequent tendency to presume ignorance on the part of an opinion-holder with whom one disagrees (which it seems to me you may have done, for example regarding the State Department, although I am not certain this was your intention).

One point I&#039;d like to explore further is your apparent equation of freedom of conscience (or the right to a critical opinion) with the application of political pressure. While I agree that they are related, I see pressure is a matter of power, not of right. An individual&#039;s, organization&#039;s, or government&#039;s ability to pressure Israel to discontinue policies with which it disagrees stems entirely from the degree of economic or other influence it can exert over Israel, not any moral principle. Because of their levels of relative dependence on the other, Israel will likely need to pay more heed to Canadian concerns than Canada will to Israel&#039;s. Right or wrong (and I can understand why it might trouble you), political realists would remind us that this is (descriptively) how the world has always functioned. This, however, was not the subject of my article (any more than were the merits of the E1 construction proposal which you defended at length).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Mr. Davison, in that it seems obvious to me that (deontologically) you have every bit as much right to express an opinion on any Canadian policy as I do on Israeli policy. That said, I think I am probably more likely to exercise the aforementioned right than you are, for the reasons mentioned in my article&#8230; First, because while the Israeli government sometimes claims to represent my interests, the Canadian government has never claimed to represent yours. And second, closely following on the previous point, because I suspect that I (like many people, for good reasons or bad) am far more concerned about certain Israeli practices than you are about any of Canada&#039;s.</p>
<p>As you&#039;ve alluded to, the responsible exercise of the right to express an opinion involves informing oneself about the subject matter at hand (a task made that much easier by the existence of media outlets such as this one). Nevertheless, one of the main points in my article was that we as a society have decided that ignorance does not disqualify someone from the right to an opinion (though, again as you noted, it certainly might undermine the substance of the opinion itself). No less troubling than ignorance itself, perhaps, is the frequent tendency to presume ignorance on the part of an opinion-holder with whom one disagrees (which it seems to me you may have done, for example regarding the State Department, although I am not certain this was your intention).</p>
<p>One point I&#039;d like to explore further is your apparent equation of freedom of conscience (or the right to a critical opinion) with the application of political pressure. While I agree that they are related, I see pressure is a matter of power, not of right. An individual&#039;s, organization&#039;s, or government&#039;s ability to pressure Israel to discontinue policies with which it disagrees stems entirely from the degree of economic or other influence it can exert over Israel, not any moral principle. Because of their levels of relative dependence on the other, Israel will likely need to pay more heed to Canadian concerns than Canada will to Israel&#039;s. Right or wrong (and I can understand why it might trouble you), political realists would remind us that this is (descriptively) how the world has always functioned. This, however, was not the subject of my article (any more than were the merits of the E1 construction proposal which you defended at length).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Daniel Haboucha</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79784</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Haboucha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you, Mr. Davison, in that it seems obvious to me that (deontologically) you have every bit as much right to express an opinion on any Canadian policy as I do on Israeli policy. That said, I think I am probably more likely to exercise the aforementioned right than you are, for the reasons mentioned in my article... First, because while the Israeli government sometimes claims to represent my interests, the Canadian government has never claimed to represent yours. And second, closely following on the previous point, because I suspect that I (like many people, for good reasons or bad) am far more concerned about certain Israeli practices than you are about any of Canada&#039;s.

As you&#039;ve alluded to, the responsible exercise of the right to express an opinion involves informing oneself about the subject matter at hand (a task made that much easier by the existence of media outlets such as this one). Nevertheless, one of the main points in my article was that we as a society have decided that ignorance does not disqualify someone from the right to an opinion (though, again as you noted, it certainly might undermine the substance of the opinion itself). No less troubling than ignorance itself, perhaps, is the frequent tendency to presume ignorance on the part of an opinion-holder with whom one disagrees (which it seems to me you may have done, for example regarding the State Department, although I am not certain this was your intention).

One point I&#039;d like to explore further is your apparent equation of freedom of conscience (or the right to a critical opinion) with the application of political pressure. While I agree that they are related, I see pressure is a matter of power, not of right. An individual&#039;s, organization&#039;s, or government&#039;s ability to pressure Israel to discontinue policies with which it disagrees stems entirely from the degree of economic or other influence it can exert over Israel, not any moral principle. Because of their levels of relative dependence on the other, Israel will likely need to pay more heed to Canadian concerns than Canada will to Israel&#039;s. Right or wrong (and I can understand why it might trouble you), political realists would remind us that this is (descriptively) how the world has always functioned. This, however, was not the subject of my article (any more than were the merits of the E1 construction proposal which you defended at length).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Mr. Davison, in that it seems obvious to me that (deontologically) you have every bit as much right to express an opinion on any Canadian policy as I do on Israeli policy. That said, I think I am probably more likely to exercise the aforementioned right than you are, for the reasons mentioned in my article&#8230; First, because while the Israeli government sometimes claims to represent my interests, the Canadian government has never claimed to represent yours. And second, closely following on the previous point, because I suspect that I (like many people, for good reasons or bad) am far more concerned about certain Israeli practices than you are about any of Canada&#039;s.</p>
<p>As you&#039;ve alluded to, the responsible exercise of the right to express an opinion involves informing oneself about the subject matter at hand (a task made that much easier by the existence of media outlets such as this one). Nevertheless, one of the main points in my article was that we as a society have decided that ignorance does not disqualify someone from the right to an opinion (though, again as you noted, it certainly might undermine the substance of the opinion itself). No less troubling than ignorance itself, perhaps, is the frequent tendency to presume ignorance on the part of an opinion-holder with whom one disagrees (which it seems to me you may have done, for example regarding the State Department, although I am not certain this was your intention).</p>
<p>One point I&#039;d like to explore further is your apparent equation of freedom of conscience (or the right to a critical opinion) with the application of political pressure. While I agree that they are related, I see pressure is a matter of power, not of right. An individual&#039;s, organization&#039;s, or government&#039;s ability to pressure Israel to discontinue policies with which it disagrees stems entirely from the degree of economic or other influence it can exert over Israel, not any moral principle. Because of their levels of relative dependence on the other, Israel will likely need to pay more heed to Canadian concerns than Canada will to Israel&#039;s. Right or wrong (and I can understand why it might trouble you), political realists would remind us that this is (descriptively) how the world has always functioned. This, however, was not the subject of my article (any more than were the merits of the E1 construction proposal which you defended at length).</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Davison</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79778</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Davison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79778</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mr. Haboucha—

You have as much right to criticize Israeli government policy as I have to criticize Canadian government policy. You have the same right to pressure the Israeli government into changing its policies that I have to pressure the Canadian government into changing its policies.

Now can you see the difference between the two?

Much of the noise and criticism made over the proposed E1 plans (which are, at this stage, still on the drawing board, and are at least 5 years from realization) is based on the basic laziness of people who hear one version, accept it and are too lazy to look at a map. Even the NYTimes Jerusalem Editor fell into that trap, when she published the claim that “building in E1 would separate the northern and southern halves of the West Bank”. She, at least, has since apologized and printed a retraction, half-@$$ed though it was.

I don’t agree with Mr. Miller, but I do agree about the building of E1. Building in E1 will guarantee Israeli contiguity between Jerusalem and Ma’ale Adumim, and will not prevent the contiguity of the West Bank. How can the Palestinians object to a corridor 15 kilometers wide between Ma’ale Adumim and the Dead Sea, when their demands will create a corridor from Herzlia to Hadera that will be as little as 12 kilometers in width at points? Yet I see no one even mentioning that fact—the same fact that made Abba Evan call the 1949 armistice line “Auschwitz borders”.

The reaction of these rabbis and their ignorance of geography distress me tremendously. It also makes me wonder if they have any understanding of the issues at hand, and of the Arab mentality we deal with daily. Are they making the same mistake that Western State Departments and Foreign Ministries constantly make, assigning their own morals, values and mentality to the Arabs of the Middle East?

If they are, then they truly have no right to speak up until they educate themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Haboucha—</p>
<p>You have as much right to criticize Israeli government policy as I have to criticize Canadian government policy. You have the same right to pressure the Israeli government into changing its policies that I have to pressure the Canadian government into changing its policies.</p>
<p>Now can you see the difference between the two?</p>
<p>Much of the noise and criticism made over the proposed E1 plans (which are, at this stage, still on the drawing board, and are at least 5 years from realization) is based on the basic laziness of people who hear one version, accept it and are too lazy to look at a map. Even the NYTimes Jerusalem Editor fell into that trap, when she published the claim that “building in E1 would separate the northern and southern halves of the West Bank”. She, at least, has since apologized and printed a retraction, half-@$$ed though it was.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with Mr. Miller, but I do agree about the building of E1. Building in E1 will guarantee Israeli contiguity between Jerusalem and Ma’ale Adumim, and will not prevent the contiguity of the West Bank. How can the Palestinians object to a corridor 15 kilometers wide between Ma’ale Adumim and the Dead Sea, when their demands will create a corridor from Herzlia to Hadera that will be as little as 12 kilometers in width at points? Yet I see no one even mentioning that fact—the same fact that made Abba Evan call the 1949 armistice line “Auschwitz borders”.</p>
<p>The reaction of these rabbis and their ignorance of geography distress me tremendously. It also makes me wonder if they have any understanding of the issues at hand, and of the Arab mentality we deal with daily. Are they making the same mistake that Western State Departments and Foreign Ministries constantly make, assigning their own morals, values and mentality to the Arabs of the Middle East?</p>
<p>If they are, then they truly have no right to speak up until they educate themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Michael Davison</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79780</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Davison</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79780</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Mr. Haboucha—

You have as much right to criticize Israeli government policy as I have to criticize Canadian government policy. You have the same right to pressure the Israeli government into changing its policies that I have to pressure the Canadian government into changing its policies.

Now can you see the difference between the two?

Much of the noise and criticism made over the proposed E1 plans (which are, at this stage, still on the drawing board, and are at least 5 years from realization) is based on the basic laziness of people who hear one version, accept it and are too lazy to look at a map. Even the NYTimes Jerusalem Editor fell into that trap, when she published the claim that “building in E1 would separate the northern and southern halves of the West Bank”. She, at least, has since apologized and printed a retraction, half-@$$ed though it was.

I don’t agree with Mr. Miller, but I do agree about the building of E1. Building in E1 will guarantee Israeli contiguity between Jerusalem and Ma’ale Adumim, and will not prevent the contiguity of the West Bank. How can the Palestinians object to a corridor 15 kilometers wide between Ma’ale Adumim and the Dead Sea, when their demands will create a corridor from Herzlia to Hadera that will be as little as 12 kilometers in width at points? Yet I see no one even mentioning that fact—the same fact that made Abba Evan call the 1949 armistice line “Auschwitz borders”.

The reaction of these rabbis and their ignorance of geography distress me tremendously. It also makes me wonder if they have any understanding of the issues at hand, and of the Arab mentality we deal with daily. Are they making the same mistake that Western State Departments and Foreign Ministries constantly make, assigning their own morals, values and mentality to the Arabs of the Middle East?

If they are, then they truly have no right to speak up until they educate themselves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Haboucha—</p>
<p>You have as much right to criticize Israeli government policy as I have to criticize Canadian government policy. You have the same right to pressure the Israeli government into changing its policies that I have to pressure the Canadian government into changing its policies.</p>
<p>Now can you see the difference between the two?</p>
<p>Much of the noise and criticism made over the proposed E1 plans (which are, at this stage, still on the drawing board, and are at least 5 years from realization) is based on the basic laziness of people who hear one version, accept it and are too lazy to look at a map. Even the NYTimes Jerusalem Editor fell into that trap, when she published the claim that “building in E1 would separate the northern and southern halves of the West Bank”. She, at least, has since apologized and printed a retraction, half-@$$ed though it was.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with Mr. Miller, but I do agree about the building of E1. Building in E1 will guarantee Israeli contiguity between Jerusalem and Ma’ale Adumim, and will not prevent the contiguity of the West Bank. How can the Palestinians object to a corridor 15 kilometers wide between Ma’ale Adumim and the Dead Sea, when their demands will create a corridor from Herzlia to Hadera that will be as little as 12 kilometers in width at points? Yet I see no one even mentioning that fact—the same fact that made Abba Evan call the 1949 armistice line “Auschwitz borders”.</p>
<p>The reaction of these rabbis and their ignorance of geography distress me tremendously. It also makes me wonder if they have any understanding of the issues at hand, and of the Arab mentality we deal with daily. Are they making the same mistake that Western State Departments and Foreign Ministries constantly make, assigning their own morals, values and mentality to the Arabs of the Middle East?</p>
<p>If they are, then they truly have no right to speak up until they educate themselves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Howard Smigel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79776</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Smigel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Typical leftist drivel. Perhaps M. Haboucha has been influenced by the opinions concerning Israel that abound in French Canada.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Typical leftist drivel. Perhaps M. Haboucha has been influenced by the opinions concerning Israel that abound in French Canada.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: El Elx</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79774</link>
		<dc:creator>El Elx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh! and can you provide the link where Bibi says he speaks for all Jews, not just for Israel?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh! and can you provide the link where Bibi says he speaks for all Jews, not just for Israel?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: El Elx</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79770</link>
		<dc:creator>El Elx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;For good or for bad, the security of Jewish communities around the world is tied to Israel’s actions;&quot;.
You must mean those Jewish Communities in 1290 in England, 1492 in Spain, 1939-45 in Germany, and countless other Jewish Communities throughout the ages who suffered daily AFFRONT wherever they lived before Herzl was even a gleam in his father&#039;s eye!
What a dupe you are Haboucha (does that mean BIG MOUTH?) Now you&#039;re blaming ISRAEL for the fact that the French-Canadians hate Jews?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;For good or for bad, the security of Jewish communities around the world is tied to Israel’s actions;&quot;.<br />
You must mean those Jewish Communities in 1290 in England, 1492 in Spain, 1939-45 in Germany, and countless other Jewish Communities throughout the ages who suffered daily AFFRONT wherever they lived before Herzl was even a gleam in his father&#039;s eye!<br />
What a dupe you are Haboucha (does that mean BIG MOUTH?) Now you&#039;re blaming ISRAEL for the fact that the French-Canadians hate Jews?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: El Elx</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79772</link>
		<dc:creator>El Elx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 08:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79772</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;For good or for bad, the security of Jewish communities around the world is tied to Israel’s actions;&quot;.
You must mean those Jewish Communities in 1290 in England, 1492 in Spain, 1939-45 in Germany, and countless other Jewish Communities throughout the ages who suffered daily AFFRONT wherever they lived before Herzl was even a gleam in his father&#039;s eye!
What a dupe you are Haboucha (does that mean BIG MOUTH?) Now you&#039;re blaming ISRAEL for the fact that the French-Canadians hate Jews?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;For good or for bad, the security of Jewish communities around the world is tied to Israel’s actions;&quot;.<br />
You must mean those Jewish Communities in 1290 in England, 1492 in Spain, 1939-45 in Germany, and countless other Jewish Communities throughout the ages who suffered daily AFFRONT wherever they lived before Herzl was even a gleam in his father&#039;s eye!<br />
What a dupe you are Haboucha (does that mean BIG MOUTH?) Now you&#039;re blaming ISRAEL for the fact that the French-Canadians hate Jews?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79702</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79702</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Could you be more specific about this &quot;At a time when Israel’s democratic principles are being increasingly threatened with restrictions on the freedom to express dissent&quot;? What exactly are these restrictions?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you be more specific about this &quot;At a time when Israel’s democratic principles are being increasingly threatened with restrictions on the freedom to express dissent&quot;? What exactly are these restrictions?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Herbert Kaine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79700</link>
		<dc:creator>Herbert Kaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 04:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One factor not mentioned by Daniel is that a lot of non-Israelis are well compensated for attacking Israel, including many rabbis. Given that many of these rabbis have discarded the entire canon of Judaism, ie Shabbat, kashrut, circumcision, the only thing they have left is hatred of Israel. One cannot expect them to give up a lucrative livelihood because some obscure Moroccan Jews in Sderot are being targeted from Gaza.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One factor not mentioned by Daniel is that a lot of non-Israelis are well compensated for attacking Israel, including many rabbis. Given that many of these rabbis have discarded the entire canon of Judaism, ie Shabbat, kashrut, circumcision, the only thing they have left is hatred of Israel. One cannot expect them to give up a lucrative livelihood because some obscure Moroccan Jews in Sderot are being targeted from Gaza.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Taylor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/criticizing-israeli-policy-a-right-not-a-privilege/#comment-79698</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2012 03:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=88458#comment-79698</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr. Haboucha, do you honestly THINK--deep down in your heart-of-hearts--when you are laying there in the dark, staring up, and pondering such weighty and fundamental issues--that the good folks who would just LOVE to SHUT YOU and your &quot;ilk&quot; UP--really give a FLYING FU*K--about your RIGHTS?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Haboucha, do you honestly THINK&#8211;deep down in your heart-of-hearts&#8211;when you are laying there in the dark, staring up, and pondering such weighty and fundamental issues&#8211;that the good folks who would just LOVE to SHUT YOU and your &quot;ilk&quot; UP&#8211;really give a FLYING FU*K&#8211;about your RIGHTS?</p>
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