Comments on: Election will bring War, Poverty, Pestilence…

By: Jonathan Lipkin

Jonathan Lipkin — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 18:28:34 +0000

Paula- of course I know your sons and son in law extended family etc have served. It was not my intention to lecture you in any way. As you know Sadok and 2 of my nephews are about to serve so this is an extremely emotional topic for me as well (as well as most of those we know). I understand what you are saying about just leave things be – the Tal law has been repealed so now everyone must serve as this is the law of the land. You say there is a 30% increase of Haredim going for tzav rishon – not sure where that number is from or what it represents, but even if accurate or significant in any way it still means that the overwhelming majority of Haredim are currently draft dodging. This creates the perception that the draft itself is irrelevant and that serving should be optional for everyone. With regard to your point about the fact they Yair Lapid doesn't complain about secular deserters there are two main points. The first is that secular Israelis don't as a philosophy refuse to serve the country. Haredim refuse to serve the country as an ideology. It is this ideology that must be changed for us to move forward together as a country (Rabbi Lipman was very specific about saying the problem isn't that Haredim don't serve, but that they don't serve out of ideology).The second point is what Yair Lapid said himself with regard to secular deserters in a Jpost interview from October. "The conscientious objectors in my neighborhood are immoral, horrible and a disgrace, but one of the reasons they feel they cannot join the IDF is that they feel they have less of a moral obligation because the government releases people." ….. It's hard to argue with that statement. Why should my son or your son or anyone serve when an entire segment of the population is given a free pass. We can't keep things as is. The draft orders cannot just be ignored until maybe one day Haredim will decide to serve in mass. We can't enforce the law and make all Haredim serve today as that will cause civil war. We therefore need to create legislation that allows the Haredi community to slowly be incorporated into national service. This can and will be done through dialog and compromise. Yesh Atid was one of the few parties that offered a serious plan to deal with the issue.

By: Paula R. Stern

Paula R. Stern — Sun, 27 Jan 2013 10:37:44 +0000

Jonathan, as you know – my sons have served – in combat units. Two adopted sons – in combat units and another one is coming up fast. My Haredi son-in-law chose to serve in the army and I am amazingly proud of him. Please don't lecture me on the need for Haredim to serve or the current status. I have been living this for the last 6 years since my oldest son went into the army. The fact is that they are no longer excluded by law from serving – and that happened LAST YEAR. We don't need Yair Lapid to make that the law. There's been a 30% rise in those going for their Tzav Rishon – again, all without Yair Lapid. With or without Yair Lapid in government, this so-called blight – will be corrected. What I reject about Yair Lapid's cry against the Haredim is that I rarely hear him (or Dov Lipman when he came to Maale Adumim) bemoan the large number of secular young men who choose to get out of the army for various reasons – pacifism, health and claims of psychological problems etc. – I know one secular boy who didn't want to serve – he just kept making himself such a pain the army finally told him to get lost. The fact is that all of Israel knows there is a problem and the majority of Yair Lapid's "solutions" involve programs that are already in place and have long been considered the solution. The Tal Law died – as it was supposed to – last July. All without Yair Lapid.

By: Jonathan Lipkin

Jonathan Lipkin — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 11:51:43 +0000

Hi Paula – just to be clear. Yair Lapid did not create a new concept here. What he did do was create a plan that will hopefully become law. There will probably be compromises along the way, but just for the record the plan is as follows: 5 years to develop army programs and national service programs acceptable to the Haredi community. During those 5 years all Haredim are exempt from service, but have the option to either learn in Yeshiva or work (work has not been an option until now). After that all 18 year old Haredi boys will be drafted into army/national service. A select amount of exceptional students will learn as part of their service……whether 0, 10% or 100% of Haredim volunteer for anything is completely irrelevant. The fact that they have been excluded by law from service whereas the rest of the population must serve by law is not only unfair but a chilul Hashem and breeds sinah among our people. With Yair Lapid in the government there is a good chance to rectify this blight on our country that has been festering for so long.

By: Eli Philip

Eli Philip — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:07:40 +0000

In the view of the KKK, politicians of color working to create a more equal society would be seen as people who "preach the destruction of" the United States.
In the disgustingly racist and ethnocentrist world view of Kahanists such as Ben Ari and Eldad, the very existence of these non-Jews in Israel, all the more so the Knesset, is in itself the "destruction" of Israeli society.
There was a good reason why Kahane was barred the first time around. I honestly cannot comprehend how anyone would want to bring his anti-Jewish rhetoric back to public, political discourse.

By: Eli Philip

Eli Philip — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 16:07:40 +0000

By: Brian Segal

Brian Segal — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:31:34 +0000

Thanks Paula!
It is a beautiful day in our beloved Israel isn't it?
G-D Bless your sons and all our soldiers.
We're going to be just fine.

By: Brian Segal

Brian Segal — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 12:31:34 +0000

Thanks Paula!
It is a beautiful day in our beloved Israel isn't it?
G-D Bless your sons and all our soldiers.
We're going to be just fine.

By: Ravi Singh

Ravi Singh — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:33:57 +0000

Gary do you seriously believe , in this age of technology, pushing Israels borders even to the river will ensure safety for Israelis? It will further ratchet up the antipathy against Israel, isolate it even more. More than any military threat, it is the very real threat of isolation and boycotts which is the biggest danger.
Why did the Palestinians reject earlier offers? Even if the fine print in these unpublished offers was palatable, you must remember that at that time the very thought of talking to Israel was a no go. That changed with Sadats visit to Tel Aviv in '79. Like I said above, Israels biggest defeat has been its inablity to build on the peace with Egypt. If it delays much longer the so called moderates will be forced into the "no" camp…. and talking to Israel again becomes impossible.

By: Bracha Osofsky

Bracha Osofsky — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:23:29 +0000

Aryeh Eldad is a real loss to the Knesset, but as far as the others on his list – good riddance!

By: Paula R. Stern

Paula R. Stern — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:46:28 +0000

Your analogy is absurd, showing your ignorance of what Otzma L'Yisrael stands for – nothing NEAR what KKK stands for and the Arab parties who preach the destruction of Israel are in no way equivalent to the black members of Congress. If there are good analogies to be made, I'm sorry to say, you haven't made one….

By: Paula R. Stern

Paula R. Stern — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:44:41 +0000

Greg – I'm not going to go into your mathematics. I never implied that all Haredim serve the country and I happen to agree that there should be mandatory service – I just didn't agree with declaring Yair Lapid to be God and/or the creator of all great concepts in Israel. I WANT the Haredim to serve – but I also find it acceptable if they do Sherut Leumi. Frankly, from what I can see, after many years of sitting in yeshiva, the army would physically be a great thing for them. But that isn't the point – my point was that we have to start with accepting that the blanket statement "all Haredim don't serve the country" is wrong. Even if it is a small percentage – what that small percentage does impacts ALL our lives. Next – "whether that was the deceased wish or not"? Seriously? Do you really think there is anyone who wants their blood and guts left scattered over the walls of a bus or a street? Is there anyone who really doesn't want to be treated with respect – alive or dead? Sorry, I'm thinking your own agenda and anger is showing in that ridiculous comment.

By: Paula R. Stern

Paula R. Stern — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:13:55 +0000

thanks, John – much appreciated!

By: Paula R. Stern

Paula R. Stern — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:13:41 +0000

Yonatan – you ever actually meet DR. Arieh Eldad? Ever even google his name? He is most definitely a trained and certified doctor. He's introduced over 20 laws related to the medical field. I really suggest before making statements, you actually consider researching them. It's amazing what you'll find out. As for our citizens not voting for hate, what do you think Shinui was all about? That was the most hateful party in Israel's history – they turned hatred of religious people (never mind Haredim) into a religion. I listened to DR. Eldad, I listened to Michael Ben Ari. And what amazes me is that you have no problem with the Arab parties in the Knesset, including ones who have called for the destruction of Israel…says more about you than it does about Israel and the elections, if you ask me. Greatest election results? Seriously – what we'll get is a deadlocked government that will last a short period of time and accomplish almost nothing…and that's under the best of circumstances.

From Wikipedia…sheesh: Eldad is a professor and head of the plastic surgery and burns unit at the Hadassah Medical Center hospital in Jerusalem. He studied medicine at Tel Aviv University, where he earned his doctorate. He served as the chief medical officer and was the senior commander of the Israeli Defense Forces medical corps for 25 years, and reached a rank of Tat Aluf (Brigadier General). He is renowned worldwide for his treatment of burns and won the Evans Award from the American Burns Treatment Association.

Considering all the people's lives he saved or made better – I'd say your first task would be to issue an apology. You may not like his politics, but questioning his medical background is insulting and despicable. Without doubt he's save a hell of a lot more lives than you (and that's without even knowing you at all). Googling you, all I got is your studying to be a lawyer?

By: Michael Marcus

Michael Marcus — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:00:05 +0000

You're welcome. I've always enjoyed your posts, but this one was really moving.

By: בן וקסמן

בן וקסמן — Thu, 24 Jan 2013 07:47:18 +0000

and with all due respect to ZAKA, there haven't been too many bodies to sweep up in the last few years (thank god).