Comments on: En”Teitel”ed to Punishment?

By: Sara Hirschhorn

Sara Hirschhorn — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:11:02 +0000

In fact, Amanda, I spent extensive time in the settlements conducting interviews with dozens of Jewish-American immigrant settlers for my dissertation. I am clearly aware of the dynamics of violence in the West Bank and an in depth discussion of the first and second intifadas were a part of my dissertation chapters.

By: Shlomo Toren

Shlomo Toren — Sun, 17 Feb 2013 18:57:44 +0000

What bothers me the most about this OP ED is its lack of accuracy with the facts. This especially true in regarding the Efraiim Regional Division incident and the arrest of the "spy ring" which if in good faith would specify that the charge was unprecendented using a charge from the Mandatory Period.

In, fact, several times judges have used little known laws to sentence, in unusual severity, people on the Right. In the Har Shefi case, the wicked judge Nira Lidski, sentenced her on flimsy evidence.. in fact on no evidence, for "failure in preventing a crime". in other cases minors have been kept in jail on spurious charges without real evidence. Even in the Teitel case, the sentence was reach in a plea bargain where Teitel confessed to two murders that in all probability he could not be convicted of (yes, there might be something unstable in Jack Teitel). In all these cases what mattered wasn't the background of the defendent but rather the background (yes, left wing) of the judge who heard the case.

As to the image of the American "settlers", it is basically image only. Of course it is easier for the internatioanl media when former Americans are involved (to hate American Jewish Orthodox settlers is a quadriple treat), but remember the USA media is full of Left wing anti religion Jews who need to demonize the "settler" movement and to label it as "extremist". This has become a snowball effect where every infraction by a former American gets extra attention above and beyond the relative severity of the crime.

So, please no double standard. There are probably about 200 thousand "settlers" and the overwhelming majority are law abiding, even more so than other groups of Israelis, veteran or otherwise. You would do better focusing on who the judges are and not on the defendents , that , if you wish, would be a better subject for a dissertation.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 17 Feb 2013 12:53:45 +0000

Unfortunately it is we Americans who make it in the British media and come across as obnoxious self-centered people who think they can treat Arabs like Americans once treated native Americans. We play into the hands of our enemies, while native Israelis receive their rightful sympathy as protecting their homeland. Britain and France once controled the Middle East and cringe when they see Americans talking as if they now rule the Middle East. Americans come across as colonialists in an age of post-colonialism.

By: Alex Seredin

Alex Seredin — Sun, 17 Feb 2013 04:20:18 +0000

Well, dear maybe Jews should not be shooting people inside a mosque, or arresting them in the dead of night, maybe they should not torture and kill Palestinian prisoners. Maybe Jews should not build 28 foot wall to separate Palestinians from their land and other Palestinians. Maybe jews should not rip ancient olive trees from the ground.and maybe they should treat Palestinians and especially their women with respect instead of slapping them around. Maybe Just maybe, Palestinian kids will stop throwing rocks on the torturers

By: Amanda Haymond

Amanda Haymond — Sun, 17 Feb 2013 03:28:42 +0000

Sara, you write a dissertation on "settlements" but I doubt that you've ever spent a few days actually at one. Why? I note with troubled interest that you fail to note the high cost it requires for Jews to reside in their own homeland (Shomrun & Yehuda). Did you not know that not a few days go by when Jews are attacked by Arab rock throwers? You did know that the last death caused by these weapons were less than a year ago, Ashley Palmer and baby. Rocks are thrown as a matter of habit by shcool children and highschoolers as well. Their teachers advocate rock throwing and authorities (Hamas and/or Fatah) actually pays them. None are arrested. Not ever. The fact that the rocks, thrown from the hillsides unto oncoming vehicles are used as weapons to frighten, hurt, injure and destroy Jews seems to have made no impression on you whatsoever. Were you ignorant of these facts? After all, it should be part of your PhD Thesis. One would expect that, at a minimum. Comment written by Robert Haymond.

By: Tizz Al Nabi

Tizz Al Nabi — Sat, 16 Feb 2013 21:29:55 +0000

His case is very similar to Ami Popper. A native Israeli who got about the same punishment. So what is your point?

By: Sara Hirschhorn

Sara Hirschhorn — Sat, 16 Feb 2013 21:08:25 +0000

I wrote this article, Kurt, because there is a stereotype about Jewish-American settlers in the occupied territories (the subject of my dissertation) that is reflected in the sentencing of Teitel. I do not suggest that either Jewish-American immigrants are riff-raff (I am quoting the stereotype about them) or that the entirety of the community should be blamed for the likes of Jack Teitel. Yet, there should be an acknowledgement that Teitel's sentence was far above and beyond that of native Israeli settlers, which calls into question who this verdict was really mean to punish. (This may also respond to your comment Marc.)

By: Sara Hirschhorn

Sara Hirschhorn — Sat, 16 Feb 2013 21:05:06 +0000

Rachel, perhaps I did not express the point clearly, but my article was intended to suggest that many (if not most) settlers are non-violent in their actions — and that the Jewish-Americn settler community (if not the entirety of the Israeli settler movement) is being caricaturized as Jack Teitels and Baruch Goldsteins. This is not helpful — both for the need for the Israeli settler movement and the Israeli legal system to identify and police it's own "bad apples" as well as in understanding the multiple constituencies and ideologies amongst the settler community as a whole, whether or not one is politically supportive of this project. The challenge on both sides is not who to call a terrorist (certainly the Palestinian who murdered the Fogels and their infant child is one, as is Jack Teitel who killed both Palestinians and Israelis in cold-blood), but not to label the entirety of either the Palestinian community or the Israeli settler movement as terrorists as well.

By: Kurt David Steinbach

Kurt David Steinbach — Sat, 16 Feb 2013 07:42:35 +0000

I am not sure why this article was written. As a Jewish American, I find it confusing and off putting. We Jewish Americans, do not send our riff raff (dregs) to Israel or anywhere else. We do not send them anywhere. We laugh at them and make fun of them in their inconsequentialness like we do other extremist nuts like Noam Chomsky, Paul Ryan, and Todd Akin. Sometimes they stay unknown. Sometimes they shy away from the infamy. Sometimes they do and say stupid things, which is why we laugh at them. Occasionally, they move to Israel, or other places where they perceive they might be more welcome, but no one forces them to do so. They are responsible for themselves and their own conduct. When they do something illegal, they go to prison, and they should. I still don't see why she wrote this article. it is an Op-Ed. maybe she has a quota of articles to write, especially if she is a paid correspondent….

By: Alex Seredin

Alex Seredin — Sat, 16 Feb 2013 06:19:13 +0000

Ah, do not worry, if he is a "good Jew" he will spend few years tending Bibi's garden.

By: Marc Goldberg

Marc Goldberg — Sat, 16 Feb 2013 03:05:11 +0000

I think you want to criticise the punishment without criticising the punishment. You on one hand argue that it is fitting that he received this punishment and on the other that he received it because he's American, it doesn't quite come off.

By: Mildred Bilt

Mildred Bilt — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 19:11:40 +0000

The fact is that Israel is getting a number of deranged American Jews. Maybe instead of asking for proof of the mother's Jewishness, it would be wiser to to legislate a mandatory battery of psychological tests to ensure that nut cases can be refused the right of return. Living in the US creates a lot of angst and neuroses. Israel has enough of its own without importing more.

By: Eli Philip

Eli Philip — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 18:58:49 +0000

You clearly did not read this article.

By: Shlomo Toren

Shlomo Toren — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 16:39:52 +0000

like people who murder their own children can get some lieniency?

You should get yourself a lawyer, not because some one will sue you for defamation, yet, but rather you are clueless about how legal systems work. That there are judges who can look at the same case and give different sentencing is a given in most systems. In Israel it is a big problem.

Hopefully if you ever find a position in the academic system, you will only get to a place where you won't cause too much damage to your students. Your entire thesis seems unsupported.

By: Levi Kofman

Levi Kofman — Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:45:52 +0000

Justice is blind in Israel and it's all about justice. Just ask Samir Kuntar…