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	<title>Comments on: Israel, declare your final borders</title>
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		<title>By: Dan Recine Sr.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-76590</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Recine Sr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 21:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-76590</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Israel, prior to 1967 existed on a low land area between the Mediterranean Sea and the West Bank with no geographical barriers (rivers or mountian passes) where it can stop or slow an enemy advance across the coastal plain. The Arabs held the high ground (West Bank and Golan Heights) where their artillery could hit almost anywhere  in Israel. Since 1967 Israel has gained control of the West Bank and annexed the Golan Heights(1981) which made their borders more defensible in the event of war. The Golan Heights is also an important fresh water source for the Jordan River and the Gallilee which provide all the drinking water for Israel. Israel has offered the Golan in peace deals with Syria in the past and they refused.  The &quot;Land for Peace&quot; solution hasn&#039;t worked in the past and it won&#039;t work in the future. Hamas doesn&#039;t want Israel to exist period. You can&#039;t negotiate if your opponent&#039;s sole objective is to eradicate you! As long as Israel holds the high ground and stays vigilant, they can control their future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel, prior to 1967 existed on a low land area between the Mediterranean Sea and the West Bank with no geographical barriers (rivers or mountian passes) where it can stop or slow an enemy advance across the coastal plain. The Arabs held the high ground (West Bank and Golan Heights) where their artillery could hit almost anywhere  in Israel. Since 1967 Israel has gained control of the West Bank and annexed the Golan Heights(1981) which made their borders more defensible in the event of war. The Golan Heights is also an important fresh water source for the Jordan River and the Gallilee which provide all the drinking water for Israel. Israel has offered the Golan in peace deals with Syria in the past and they refused.  The &quot;Land for Peace&quot; solution hasn&#039;t worked in the past and it won&#039;t work in the future. Hamas doesn&#039;t want Israel to exist period. You can&#039;t negotiate if your opponent&#039;s sole objective is to eradicate you! As long as Israel holds the high ground and stays vigilant, they can control their future.</p>
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		<title>By: Emanuel S. Lombard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-76592</link>
		<dc:creator>Emanuel S. Lombard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-76592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What almost everyone seems to forget is that just as the Arab world may plead the Palestinian Arab cause, Israel has yet to plead the Jews from Arab Countries&#039; cause.  Both groups deserve restitution for stolen lands and assets 1947-67. While the Arabs left their brothers to weep and rot in UNRWA camps, Israel has been busily restoring dignity to 850,000 brothers from Arab lands.
Now, we must get ready to negotiate and resolve BOTH tragedies. Fair??]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What almost everyone seems to forget is that just as the Arab world may plead the Palestinian Arab cause, Israel has yet to plead the Jews from Arab Countries&#039; cause.  Both groups deserve restitution for stolen lands and assets 1947-67. While the Arabs left their brothers to weep and rot in UNRWA camps, Israel has been busily restoring dignity to 850,000 brothers from Arab lands.<br />
Now, we must get ready to negotiate and resolve BOTH tragedies. Fair??</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brian Fink</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-76588</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Fink</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 12:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-76588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The suggestion has many fatal flaws but the biggest is that if Israel withdraws &#039;a la Gaza&#039; the results of that catastrophe are there for all to see.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The suggestion has many fatal flaws but the biggest is that if Israel withdraws &#039;a la Gaza&#039; the results of that catastrophe are there for all to see.</p>
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		<title>By: Ravi Singh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75244</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravi Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 07:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marc your position is the avowed and well known Israeli position.
It is as unacceptable to the world as apartheid S Africas Bantustan policy was. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc your position is the avowed and well known Israeli position.<br />
It is as unacceptable to the world as apartheid S Africas Bantustan policy was. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim Upham</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75242</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Upham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2012 00:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That is what the Oslo Accords outlined, is that final borders would be determined within a 5 year interim period.  They were signed in 1993, it is now 2012.  Israel never went in and annexed the West Bank.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is what the Oslo Accords outlined, is that final borders would be determined within a 5 year interim period.  They were signed in 1993, it is now 2012.  Israel never went in and annexed the West Bank.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Svietka Rivilis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75238</link>
		<dc:creator>Svietka Rivilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 23:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I know what u r suggesting-if I m getting it right: screw the world and stop looking over our shoulder and trying to please everybody cause no matter what-nobody is ever gona be happy with what we r doing-unless we r actually being a constant victim, the world will always be against us and always have something to say. if I got u right-i totally agree:) I of course do not agree we should only look at big settlements-but that&#039;s cause I live in one that is 800families-by your definition it is probably not big enough to be annexed, but in our reality-we r a HUUGE village:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I know what u r suggesting-if I m getting it right: screw the world and stop looking over our shoulder and trying to please everybody cause no matter what-nobody is ever gona be happy with what we r doing-unless we r actually being a constant victim, the world will always be against us and always have something to say. if I got u right-i totally agree:) I of course do not agree we should only look at big settlements-but that&#039;s cause I live in one that is 800families-by your definition it is probably not big enough to be annexed, but in our reality-we r a HUUGE village:)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Svietka Rivilis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75240</link>
		<dc:creator>Svietka Rivilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 23:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75240</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think I know what u r suggesting-if I m getting it right: screw the world and stop looking over our shoulder and trying to please everybody cause no matter what-nobody is ever gona be happy with what we r doing-unless we r actually being a constant victim, the world will always be against us and always have something to say. if I got u right-i totally agree:) I of course do not agree we should only look at big settlements-but that&#039;s cause I live in one that is 800families-by your definition it is probably not big enough to be annexed, but in our reality-we r a HUUGE village:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I know what u r suggesting-if I m getting it right: screw the world and stop looking over our shoulder and trying to please everybody cause no matter what-nobody is ever gona be happy with what we r doing-unless we r actually being a constant victim, the world will always be against us and always have something to say. if I got u right-i totally agree:) I of course do not agree we should only look at big settlements-but that&#039;s cause I live in one that is 800families-by your definition it is probably not big enough to be annexed, but in our reality-we r a HUUGE village:)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stephen Duke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75102</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 20:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75102</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marc- I agree with everything you wrote save for the second clause of you final sentence. Congress would probably support this but Obama and the State Dept is a different matter...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marc- I agree with everything you wrote save for the second clause of you final sentence. Congress would probably support this but Obama and the State Dept is a different matter&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stephen Duke</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75100</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 20:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75100</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John- I read you blog piece. There&#039;s many problems with your suggestion here are just two- 

1) Its in breach of the UN charter and would throw international law into the toilet. Despite political opinion, Israel already has legal title to the land in dispute.

2) There is zero incentive for either side to agree to your suggestion; Israel because of point 1 and the Palestinians because they are always the aggressors.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John- I read you blog piece. There&#039;s many problems with your suggestion here are just two- </p>
<p>1) Its in breach of the UN charter and would throw international law into the toilet. Despite political opinion, Israel already has legal title to the land in dispute.</p>
<p>2) There is zero incentive for either side to agree to your suggestion; Israel because of point 1 and the Palestinians because they are always the aggressors.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Marc Velletri</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-108706</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Velletri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 17:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-108706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In no other war I know of has the aggressor lost, then demanded their war aims in exchange for peace. The 1967 lines are not going to happen and neither is re-dividing Jerusalem. Oslo has been a failure. The columnist is right, Israel should declare the border it wants and pull back to it. They should have done it while Bush was president but I think they will have U.S. support regardless.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In no other war I know of has the aggressor lost, then demanded their war aims in exchange for peace. The 1967 lines are not going to happen and neither is re-dividing Jerusalem. Oslo has been a failure. The columnist is right, Israel should declare the border it wants and pull back to it. They should have done it while Bush was president but I think they will have U.S. support regardless.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ravi Singh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75098</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravi Singh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 17:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75098</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Declaring borders unilaterally, with the wall being the border, will be like pissing into the wind. No one, not even the US of A will recognise these borders, it will inflame the situation in Palestine, could very likely effect the treaty with Egypt, Isolate Israel even more... in short it would be a disaster. However in the unlikely event of Israel declaring its eventual commitment to  the 67 borders, things could be different. Such a move would attract wide international support, Isolate the Palestinian nay sayers, give Israel the moral high ground and eventually making peace an inevitability.
Sadly Israel will not take such a step, and without it there&#039;s no 2 state solution. Will have to wait for a one state.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Declaring borders unilaterally, with the wall being the border, will be like pissing into the wind. No one, not even the US of A will recognise these borders, it will inflame the situation in Palestine, could very likely effect the treaty with Egypt, Isolate Israel even more&#8230; in short it would be a disaster. However in the unlikely event of Israel declaring its eventual commitment to  the 67 borders, things could be different. Such a move would attract wide international support, Isolate the Palestinian nay sayers, give Israel the moral high ground and eventually making peace an inevitability.<br />
Sadly Israel will not take such a step, and without it there&#039;s no 2 state solution. Will have to wait for a one state.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Israel Yaar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75096</link>
		<dc:creator>Israel Yaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 15:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75096</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is another way:
Even if there is no agreed resolution at the moment, most likely there will never be, Israel should prepare for it. Israel should declare that the whole area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea is hers and use the Bible, the history of the Jewish people in the land of Israel and the League of Nations/UN decisions to securing this right. Also, Israel should declare that it acknowledges the fact that there are other people, enemy population at the moment and probably forever, who live in those regions and that Israel out of the goodness of her heart will allow them to continue living there under a demilitarized autonomy, nothing else.
 From Israel point of view – if she wants to exist into the future – there is one and only one solution: Israel should annex the Jordan Valley and two wide corridors leading into it, the Jerusalem corridor and the Immanuel-Ariel corridor. The rest will be demilitarized and administered by the Palestinian Autonomy whether they want it or not. Small Israeli settlements outside the annexed areas will either continue to function under IDF protection or relocate. The current Palestinian population in the annexed area will be given Israeli citizenship if they so wish. The Palestinian autonomy according to this plan will comprise of four regions: The Beit-Lechem-Hebron region, the Ramallah region, the Jenin region and the Jericho region. These regions will interconnect using their own sovereign roads and tunnels, while connections with other countries and, especially Jordan and Gaza, will be through Israeli territory and under Israeli law. Israel should put barriers and mark the final borders as stated above. Massive settlements should be quickly added in the annexed territories especially in the corridors and the Jordan Valley.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is another way:<br />
Even if there is no agreed resolution at the moment, most likely there will never be, Israel should prepare for it. Israel should declare that the whole area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea is hers and use the Bible, the history of the Jewish people in the land of Israel and the League of Nations/UN decisions to securing this right. Also, Israel should declare that it acknowledges the fact that there are other people, enemy population at the moment and probably forever, who live in those regions and that Israel out of the goodness of her heart will allow them to continue living there under a demilitarized autonomy, nothing else.<br />
 From Israel point of view – if she wants to exist into the future – there is one and only one solution: Israel should annex the Jordan Valley and two wide corridors leading into it, the Jerusalem corridor and the Immanuel-Ariel corridor. The rest will be demilitarized and administered by the Palestinian Autonomy whether they want it or not. Small Israeli settlements outside the annexed areas will either continue to function under IDF protection or relocate. The current Palestinian population in the annexed area will be given Israeli citizenship if they so wish. The Palestinian autonomy according to this plan will comprise of four regions: The Beit-Lechem-Hebron region, the Ramallah region, the Jenin region and the Jericho region. These regions will interconnect using their own sovereign roads and tunnels, while connections with other countries and, especially Jordan and Gaza, will be through Israeli territory and under Israeli law. Israel should put barriers and mark the final borders as stated above. Massive settlements should be quickly added in the annexed territories especially in the corridors and the Jordan Valley.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Israel Yaar</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-75094</link>
		<dc:creator>Israel Yaar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 15:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-75094</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi John: For good or ill, unilateralism worked at the Gaza strip borders, did it not?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John: For good or ill, unilateralism worked at the Gaza strip borders, did it not?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Yonit Gefen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-74976</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonit Gefen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 06:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-74976</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Israel and Palestinians- Negotiations?

The Times of Israel today published an editorial titled “ Israel , declare your final borders. The typical comment-- that borders must be agreed upon mutually, that this is possible and that we should stop avoiding the issue and get down to it. For heaven sakes, it has been 65 years and there are no other option. It sounds good unless you put aside songs like “Give Peace a chance” and perceive reality , even if that reality is truly awful.

People love to think that all problems have a solution, that there is always a better solution that ongoing war. Why? not as a logical conclusion but an unquestioned almost religious belief that life without peace is unthinkable and unacceptable - in the words of the writer if Israel and Palestine can’t negotiate  “we are all screwed.” Reality can be painful. Nevertheless it’s a lot better to see things as thy are than succumb to self delusion which in the case of Israel could mean-- the end. 

The UN vote on Palestine is proof that the world DOES  believe not believe they are screwed  if borders are declared by one party. Abbas, at the UN, declared borders unilaterally, and with a few exceptions, the whole world not only voted yes, but is now horrified that Israel doesn’t accept the boundaries in the document that almost all countries voted yes. There was not ONE request from any country that Israel’s existence, our right to not be exterminated be added. 

We gave up land time and time again, for the approval of our “friends” and for promises that were never kept. There is a Palestinian state right now. Gaza and it’s a testament to he  consequences of making agreements because communication is always possible, because no matter what we have to “try”.

This is not a world of allies that abhor our genocide. Muslim fundamentalists do not magically turn into peace guarantors because by putting  on a suit, if a dictator is overthrown in an Arab country Muslim the result is  not democracy. Thus far Muslim theocracies move in and with them, sharia law, the end of rights for women, and as the Arab Spring demonstrated, praying for our genocide : Blessed be Alla , death to the Jews. If despite all of these obstacles, we do come to an agreement , we can count on the instability of the political system to eventually undermine it (as in Egypt).

Not declaring borders when your enemies do is, by western standards reasonable and by liberal standards the only at.  This reasonableness is also suicidal and has managed to divert the world’s focus to a little hill because it’s name is the E1 corridor. 

We are long overdue in declaring things unilaterally.  The ceasefire obligations with Gaza are void as terrorists from Gaza (along with Egypt, the United States and the U.N.)  have violated its’ conditions.The Philadelphia corridor is part of Israel and that people who enter no man’s land will be shot. Jewish settlements in the west bank are part of Israel and building will continue until Palestinians begin negotiating with no preconditions.

In the past  Israel’s way has been. Let’s see what they do and than we’ll decide. We’ve paid for this in blood. I hate perceiving the Muslim endgame, Like most other Jews and Israelis I am much more comfortable in new ventures, technology, chess, family and good conversation.

I wish it were different, that there were secular Arab states replace with stable democracies whose leaders are genuine in their desire for peace and who have the authority to make it stick. Until then I and others will fight against peace on paper,  indirect negotiations, ceasefires with guarantors, every request that Israel be “reasonable,” that we aren’t doing enough. There’s a time for peace. It isn’t now. 

The Times of Israel today published an editorial titled “ Israel , declare your final borders. The typical comment-- that borders must be agreed upon mutually, that this is possible and that we should stop avoiding the issue and get down to it. For heaven sakes, it has been 65 years and there are no other option. It sounds good unless you put aside songs like “Give Peace a chance” and perceive reality , even if that reality is truly awful.

People love to think that all problems have a solution, that there is always a better solution that ongoing war. Why? not as a logical conclusion but an unquestioned almost religious belief that life without peace is unthinkable and unacceptable - in the words of the writer if Israel and Palestine can’t negotiate  “we are all screwed.” Reality can be painful. Nevertheless it’s a lot better to see things as thy are than succumb to self delusion which in the case of Israel could mean-- the end. 

The UN vote on Palestine is proof that the world DOES  believe not believe they are screwed  if borders are declared by one party. Abbas, at the UN, declared borders unilaterally, and with a few exceptions, the whole world not only voted yes, but is now horrified that Israel doesn’t accept the boundaries in the document that almost all countries voted yes. There was not ONE request from any country that Israel’s existence, our right to not be exterminated be added. 

We gave up land time and time again, for the approval of our “friends” and for promises that were never kept. There is a Palestinian state right now. Gaza and it’s a testament to he  consequences of making agreements because communication is always possible, because no matter what we have to “try”.

This is not a world of allies that abhor our genocide. Muslim fundamentalists do not magically turn into peace guarantors because by putting  on a suit, if a dictator is overthrown in an Arab country Muslim the result is  not democracy. Thus far Muslim theocracies move in and with them, sharia law, the end of rights for women, and as the Arab Spring demonstrated, praying for our genocide : Blessed be Alla , death to the Jews. If despite all of these obstacles, we do come to an agreement , we can count on the instability of the political system to eventually undermine it (as in Egypt).

Not declaring borders when your enemies do is, by western standards reasonable and by liberal standards the only at.  This reasonableness is also suicidal and has managed to divert the world’s focus to a little hill because it’s name is the E1 corridor. 

We are long overdue in declaring things unilaterally.  The ceasefire obligations with Gaza are void as terrorists from Gaza (along with Egypt, the United States and the U.N.)  have violated its’ conditions.The Philadelphia corridor is part of Israel and that people who enter no man’s land will be shot. Jewish settlements in the west bank are part of Israel and building will continue until Palestinians begin negotiating with no preconditions.

In the past  Israel’s way has been. Let’s see what they do and than we’ll decide. We’ve paid for this in blood. I hate perceiving the Muslim endgame, Like most other Jews and Israelis I am much more comfortable in new ventures, technology, chess, family and good conversation.

I wish it were different, that there were secular Arab states replace with stable democracies whose leaders are genuine in their desire for peace and who have the authority to make it stick. Until then I and others will fight against peace on paper,  indirect negotiations, ceasefires with guarantors, every request that Israel be “reasonable,” that we aren’t doing enough. There’s a time for peace. It isn’t now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Israel and Palestinians- Negotiations?</p>
<p>The Times of Israel today published an editorial titled “ Israel , declare your final borders. The typical comment&#8211; that borders must be agreed upon mutually, that this is possible and that we should stop avoiding the issue and get down to it. For heaven sakes, it has been 65 years and there are no other option. It sounds good unless you put aside songs like “Give Peace a chance” and perceive reality , even if that reality is truly awful.</p>
<p>People love to think that all problems have a solution, that there is always a better solution that ongoing war. Why? not as a logical conclusion but an unquestioned almost religious belief that life without peace is unthinkable and unacceptable &#8211; in the words of the writer if Israel and Palestine can’t negotiate  “we are all screwed.” Reality can be painful. Nevertheless it’s a lot better to see things as thy are than succumb to self delusion which in the case of Israel could mean&#8211; the end. </p>
<p>The UN vote on Palestine is proof that the world DOES  believe not believe they are screwed  if borders are declared by one party. Abbas, at the UN, declared borders unilaterally, and with a few exceptions, the whole world not only voted yes, but is now horrified that Israel doesn’t accept the boundaries in the document that almost all countries voted yes. There was not ONE request from any country that Israel’s existence, our right to not be exterminated be added. </p>
<p>We gave up land time and time again, for the approval of our “friends” and for promises that were never kept. There is a Palestinian state right now. Gaza and it’s a testament to he  consequences of making agreements because communication is always possible, because no matter what we have to “try”.</p>
<p>This is not a world of allies that abhor our genocide. Muslim fundamentalists do not magically turn into peace guarantors because by putting  on a suit, if a dictator is overthrown in an Arab country Muslim the result is  not democracy. Thus far Muslim theocracies move in and with them, sharia law, the end of rights for women, and as the Arab Spring demonstrated, praying for our genocide : Blessed be Alla , death to the Jews. If despite all of these obstacles, we do come to an agreement , we can count on the instability of the political system to eventually undermine it (as in Egypt).</p>
<p>Not declaring borders when your enemies do is, by western standards reasonable and by liberal standards the only at.  This reasonableness is also suicidal and has managed to divert the world’s focus to a little hill because it’s name is the E1 corridor. </p>
<p>We are long overdue in declaring things unilaterally.  The ceasefire obligations with Gaza are void as terrorists from Gaza (along with Egypt, the United States and the U.N.)  have violated its’ conditions.The Philadelphia corridor is part of Israel and that people who enter no man’s land will be shot. Jewish settlements in the west bank are part of Israel and building will continue until Palestinians begin negotiating with no preconditions.</p>
<p>In the past  Israel’s way has been. Let’s see what they do and than we’ll decide. We’ve paid for this in blood. I hate perceiving the Muslim endgame, Like most other Jews and Israelis I am much more comfortable in new ventures, technology, chess, family and good conversation.</p>
<p>I wish it were different, that there were secular Arab states replace with stable democracies whose leaders are genuine in their desire for peace and who have the authority to make it stick. Until then I and others will fight against peace on paper,  indirect negotiations, ceasefires with guarantors, every request that Israel be “reasonable,” that we aren’t doing enough. There’s a time for peace. It isn’t now. </p>
<p>The Times of Israel today published an editorial titled “ Israel , declare your final borders. The typical comment&#8211; that borders must be agreed upon mutually, that this is possible and that we should stop avoiding the issue and get down to it. For heaven sakes, it has been 65 years and there are no other option. It sounds good unless you put aside songs like “Give Peace a chance” and perceive reality , even if that reality is truly awful.</p>
<p>People love to think that all problems have a solution, that there is always a better solution that ongoing war. Why? not as a logical conclusion but an unquestioned almost religious belief that life without peace is unthinkable and unacceptable &#8211; in the words of the writer if Israel and Palestine can’t negotiate  “we are all screwed.” Reality can be painful. Nevertheless it’s a lot better to see things as thy are than succumb to self delusion which in the case of Israel could mean&#8211; the end. </p>
<p>The UN vote on Palestine is proof that the world DOES  believe not believe they are screwed  if borders are declared by one party. Abbas, at the UN, declared borders unilaterally, and with a few exceptions, the whole world not only voted yes, but is now horrified that Israel doesn’t accept the boundaries in the document that almost all countries voted yes. There was not ONE request from any country that Israel’s existence, our right to not be exterminated be added. </p>
<p>We gave up land time and time again, for the approval of our “friends” and for promises that were never kept. There is a Palestinian state right now. Gaza and it’s a testament to he  consequences of making agreements because communication is always possible, because no matter what we have to “try”.</p>
<p>This is not a world of allies that abhor our genocide. Muslim fundamentalists do not magically turn into peace guarantors because by putting  on a suit, if a dictator is overthrown in an Arab country Muslim the result is  not democracy. Thus far Muslim theocracies move in and with them, sharia law, the end of rights for women, and as the Arab Spring demonstrated, praying for our genocide : Blessed be Alla , death to the Jews. If despite all of these obstacles, we do come to an agreement , we can count on the instability of the political system to eventually undermine it (as in Egypt).</p>
<p>Not declaring borders when your enemies do is, by western standards reasonable and by liberal standards the only at.  This reasonableness is also suicidal and has managed to divert the world’s focus to a little hill because it’s name is the E1 corridor. </p>
<p>We are long overdue in declaring things unilaterally.  The ceasefire obligations with Gaza are void as terrorists from Gaza (along with Egypt, the United States and the U.N.)  have violated its’ conditions.The Philadelphia corridor is part of Israel and that people who enter no man’s land will be shot. Jewish settlements in the west bank are part of Israel and building will continue until Palestinians begin negotiating with no preconditions.</p>
<p>In the past  Israel’s way has been. Let’s see what they do and than we’ll decide. We’ve paid for this in blood. I hate perceiving the Muslim endgame, Like most other Jews and Israelis I am much more comfortable in new ventures, technology, chess, family and good conversation.</p>
<p>I wish it were different, that there were secular Arab states replace with stable democracies whose leaders are genuine in their desire for peace and who have the authority to make it stick. Until then I and others will fight against peace on paper,  indirect negotiations, ceasefires with guarantors, every request that Israel be “reasonable,” that we aren’t doing enough. There’s a time for peace. It isn’t now.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Taylor</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/israel-declare-your-final-borders/#comment-74966</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Dec 2012 02:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=84792#comment-74966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[John, friend, I have one question. In your last sentence, you use the phrase &quot;...then we&#039;re all screwed.&quot;--and my question is simply this: WHO--precisely--does &quot;we all&quot; refer to? Is it the &quot;entire world,&quot; in a somewhat philosophical sense? Or is it the &quot;entire world,&quot; stretching out geographically (in an admittedly extreme example) to include every last yak herder on the most remote Himalayan plateau? Or is it confined to LESS than the most inclusive interpretation of &quot;we all?&quot; (and speaking from a personal standpoint, would I be included?)

In any event--F&amp;O!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, friend, I have one question. In your last sentence, you use the phrase &quot;&#8230;then we&#039;re all screwed.&quot;&#8211;and my question is simply this: WHO&#8211;precisely&#8211;does &quot;we all&quot; refer to? Is it the &quot;entire world,&quot; in a somewhat philosophical sense? Or is it the &quot;entire world,&quot; stretching out geographically (in an admittedly extreme example) to include every last yak herder on the most remote Himalayan plateau? Or is it confined to LESS than the most inclusive interpretation of &quot;we all?&quot; (and speaking from a personal standpoint, would I be included?)</p>
<p>In any event&#8211;F&amp;O!</p>
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