Comments on: Jewish education caught in the crossfire of a most uncivil war

By: Cherie Hagooli

Cherie Hagooli — Wed, 05 Dec 2012 18:44:57 +0000

Wrong, wrong and wrong. The problem with Jewish education is that it is so extremely expensive and Rabbis care more about lining their pockets than educating the next generation. This is the conversation we really ought to be having.

By: Dana Tzvibel Fridman

Dana Tzvibel Fridman — Tue, 04 Dec 2012 08:01:23 +0000

Wow! איזה יופי. תודה

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 17:15:47 +0000

David Brent The controversy can be discussed in a gentle and balanced manner by most teachers, I suspect. The problem lies with parents who themselves have little or no Torah education, much less desire to provide that for their kids. Because they have no Torah knowledge, those who would deem Israel controversial create problems for teachers because, like teaching mitzvot, teaching truth about Israel would contradict pop-culture and media-influenced views about Israel that parents hold. A spirtual leader of the congregation who has sufficient daas Torah can and should be able to explain to parents why pro-Israel views are both normative and non-controversial. If they don't like that, they have the option of not giving their kis Jewish education. But the problem rests with the parents.

By: Mark Goodman

Mark Goodman — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 14:12:56 +0000

I can't tell if he's truly a misogynist, or just a douchebag. I suspect if I had given Rabbi Jacobs senior sermon, he'd a come after me. So I vote douchebag.

By: David Brent

David Brent — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:30:54 +0000

As a former 7th grade teacher at a conservative synagogue I can confirm that your statement regarding the parents is mostly true. I just don't understand what that has to do with my argument that if a teacher wants to teach a controversial topic, they need to be able to explain both sides of the argument. The author wants Israel to stop being a controversial topic so that teachers can teach the subject. If Hashem didn't want Israel to be controversial, he would have put the promised land in a different neighborhood. In fact, Judaism will always be controversial unless we all decide to assimilate.

By: Tim Upham

Tim Upham — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:20:07 +0000

The problem with Jewish education is that it is out there, but it seems as though many Jews are not motivated to seek it. So they make up for their lack of education, by embracing radical right wing support of Israel. Going as far as calling for the physical extermination or force removal of all Arabs in Israel and the West Bank. I will have said to me "How can you be jewish, if you do not believe this?" According to Halachic Law, someone is Jewish, when at least their mother was Jewish. That exactly applies to me. Not victimized people.

By: Tim Upham

Tim Upham — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 03:20:07 +0000

By: Sam Wineburg

Sam Wineburg — Fri, 30 Nov 2012 02:47:31 +0000

So basically, the purpose of education is to create clones who think alike, who all have the same views, who do not debate, and who only say 'Amen'. Any thing short of this is deemed not "real Jewish education." How low have we stooped?

By: HaRabbah Suskin

HaRabbah Suskin — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:52:43 +0000

This is not Brous' doing. Brous has always held a civil rational discourse. The fault here lies with Gordis and his ilk, who take any opportunity to turn a discussion of Israel into an opportunity to bully people who don't agree with him and accuse them of insufficient love for (or actually hatred for) Judaism and Israel. As one of my teachers pointed out, his tendency to target female rabbis is also unseemly – it is no accident that his two most visible targets (other than Peter Beinart, whom he made some kind of temporary truce with after meeting and debating him in person) were Rabbi Jill Jacobs and Rabbi Sharon Brous. Both outspoken, moral, politically-active women rabbis: How dare they.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:33:29 +0000

The problem is not the teachers. The problem is the parents fail to give Jewish education to their children. Bar mitzvah preparation is NOT Jewish education. Jewish education is Torah education, with Torah's expression of the Jews' relationship to Eretz Yisroel taught even before the issue of the modern State of Israel and modern Zionism. But parents don't want to give their kids that, because their children would see their parents' hypocrisy on Torah (eating trayf, violating shabbos, etc.). It's more important to most Jewish American parents that their kids be successful doctors and lawyers than be be good Jews and good people as defined by Torah, the sine qua non of Judiasm.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 18:21:55 +0000

The problem identified by the author is not education, but lack of it. American Jewish parents largely FAIL to give their children adequate Jewish education, including topics of Israel and Zionism, Torah relationship to Eretz Yisroel, so they nor teachers can properly convey ways to think about and dicuss those topics. They send them to a few hours of Hebrew school to prepare for a bar mitzvah without context of Torah meaning. Few even visit Israel. So their "education" on Israel and Zionism is left to anti-Israel, anti-relgion, and pro-Palestinian, pro-Islamist, pro-Leftist popular media. The Reform and Conservative day school kids are affected some, but not nearly as much as the public school kids. And the ultimate cause of the failure is the PARENTS, not the schools or teachers. They fail AT HOME to make Jewish choices and don't act to make Jewish religion, Jewish life, and the Jewish state in any way distinct from non-Jewish versions of those things. Maybe faster assimilation should be encouraged to make the phenomenon of self-hating Jews disappear?

By: Benjamin Gould

Benjamin Gould — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 09:34:41 +0000

It's a very small world. David B. Starr was the Rabbi for my wedding and Sivan was Rachel's "Maid of Honor".

By: Lawrence Weinman

Lawrence Weinman — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 05:17:38 +0000

So children their age are being shelled running to shelters and having school cancelled for weeks on end in Israeland Jewish educators teaching Jewish kids the same age in the US are "opting out of the conversation…and you train educators and blame that on the "tone of the conversation"….oy vey.

By: Lawrence Weinman

Lawrence Weinman — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 05:12:08 +0000

well I think you proved Danield Gordis' point. Wjhen a jewish educator is not willing to tell his children what Gershom Baskin who has devoted his life to Israel Palestinian relations and a lifelong critic of Israeli politics (below) they have abdicated their responsibility as a jewish educator. Sorry if you think repeating this is being either a heretic or a fanatic I think you need to rething how jewish educators are being trained. here's the quote:(again)"Wouldn’t it be great if the people of Gaza said to Hamas and Jihad “we don’t want you to defend us by sending rockets into Israel … We want our leadership to invest in building schools, parks, museums, factories, etc. and not rockets, bunkers, and bombs”… [Gaza] is not like the West Bank -Israel has no territorial claims or aspirations in Gaza."

By: Sarit Tsor Ferreira

Sarit Tsor Ferreira — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 04:00:39 +0000

Interesting article. My question is WHY are these people avoiding talking about Israel – it is not clear. I agree with you David that much of it probably stems from simple lack of knowledge about Israel and Zionism in general. But I fear that some of it has to do with anti Israel political views that stem from how the media paints Israel as opposed to actual historical knowledge. Many Jews shape their political views based on CNN as opposed to searching for the actual facts. As an Israeli and an education director I was the one in this past conflict who got into the classrooms and presented the facts – for what they really are:)