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	<title>Comments on: The Crash of 2013</title>
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		<title>By: בן וקסמן</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-80718</link>
		<dc:creator>בן וקסמן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 13:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[sorry to be coming back to your article after 5 days but . . .

1) egypt didn&#039;t jump on the hamas bandwagon the way many predicted.
2) bibi and obama managed to work together very well, thank you. as a leftist put it, if this is obama&#039;s throwing up under a bus, i hope that he throws us under a train. 
3) europe may not have been ideal, but they also stood by us during the war.
4) yes i would like the government to be more pro-active. if the elections go as planned i would hope that a government that includes shelly will find a way to do it. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry to be coming back to your article after 5 days but . . .</p>
<p>1) egypt didn&#039;t jump on the hamas bandwagon the way many predicted.<br />
2) bibi and obama managed to work together very well, thank you. as a leftist put it, if this is obama&#039;s throwing up under a bus, i hope that he throws us under a train.<br />
3) europe may not have been ideal, but they also stood by us during the war.<br />
4) yes i would like the government to be more pro-active. if the elections go as planned i would hope that a government that includes shelly will find a way to do it. </p>
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		<title>By: עמנואל שחף</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68310</link>
		<dc:creator>עמנואל שחף</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68310</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First of all we should be going for a political solution with Abu Mazen. This will do a lot to further delegitimize Hamas in Gaza (it&#039;s on politicall weak footing there not having delivered the goods, the war is only strengthening it). And Egypt has to part of the solution. But again, this government isn&#039;t going that way, any way. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all we should be going for a political solution with Abu Mazen. This will do a lot to further delegitimize Hamas in Gaza (it&#039;s on politicall weak footing there not having delivered the goods, the war is only strengthening it). And Egypt has to part of the solution. But again, this government isn&#039;t going that way, any way. </p>
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		<title>By: עמנואל שחף</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68316</link>
		<dc:creator>עמנואל שחף</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68316</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not giving Rabin credit for strategic thinking is off the mark - he may not have had a final status in mind but he certainly wanted to resolve the issues with the Palestinians. If there is one thing certain it is that this government does not. And since the Palestinian issue is much more of a threat than Iran&#039;s yet to be built nuclear weapons, we have to remove this government, the sooner the better.

Regarding the Egyptians - they are down on us for many reasons, most of which have little to do with us. But I would like to concentrate on the reasons over which I do have control since working on those will definitely make things better. Dealing with the Palestinians is the single most important one. Stop being so damn arrogant as we are apt to be would be another. 
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not giving Rabin credit for strategic thinking is off the mark &#8211; he may not have had a final status in mind but he certainly wanted to resolve the issues with the Palestinians. If there is one thing certain it is that this government does not. And since the Palestinian issue is much more of a threat than Iran&#039;s yet to be built nuclear weapons, we have to remove this government, the sooner the better.</p>
<p>Regarding the Egyptians &#8211; they are down on us for many reasons, most of which have little to do with us. But I would like to concentrate on the reasons over which I do have control since working on those will definitely make things better. Dealing with the Palestinians is the single most important one. Stop being so damn arrogant as we are apt to be would be another. </p>
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		<title>By: בן וקסמן</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68314</link>
		<dc:creator>בן וקסמן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68314</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Nobody gives a damn about human rights unless you are well enough to spend the time and effort and even then its not all too common.&quot;

which is why i don&#039;t believe that the egyptians are down on us because of our treatment of the palestinians. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Nobody gives a damn about human rights unless you are well enough to spend the time and effort and even then its not all too common.&quot;</p>
<p>which is why i don&#039;t believe that the egyptians are down on us because of our treatment of the palestinians. </p>
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		<title>By: בן וקסמן</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68312</link>
		<dc:creator>בן וקסמן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 13:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ever since Rabin was murdered, policy making in Israel has been only with short term in mind. 

years ago, Yossi Beilin gave a famous interview in which he said that rabin never concluded what would be the final status of the palestinians. it is obvious that oslo was a &quot;let&#039;s try it and see how it works out&quot; plan. so, i don&#039;t believe that rabin was such a long term thinker either. certainly, neither sharon nor olmert were.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ever since Rabin was murdered, policy making in Israel has been only with short term in mind. </p>
<p>years ago, Yossi Beilin gave a famous interview in which he said that rabin never concluded what would be the final status of the palestinians. it is obvious that oslo was a &quot;let&#039;s try it and see how it works out&quot; plan. so, i don&#039;t believe that rabin was such a long term thinker either. certainly, neither sharon nor olmert were.</p>
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		<title>By: עמנואל שחף</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68110</link>
		<dc:creator>עמנואל שחף</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68110</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ever since Rabin was murdered, policy making in Israel has been only with short term in mind. The sanctions regime was not really problematic because soon enough players realized it was the only way to prevent Netanyahu from bombing. There was another reassessment (under Reagan) - it may not be &quot;the one&quot; but it certainly was one. 

Nobody gives a damn about human rights unless you are well enough to spend the time and effort and even then its not all too common.

 Netanyahu is one dimensional: His only ticket is to prevent a repetition of the Shoah and he views Iran as the central threat. He doesn&#039;t recognize the threat of a binational state, he doesn&#039;t recognize the threat of a non-democratic state, he doesn&#039;t recognize the threat of international delegitimization. Why not ? Because he is certain that he knows the truth. Listen to him when he talks to the world leaders. It&#039;s only him who knows the truth.

Bibi doesn&#039;t have an end game - his end game is survival, both for himself politically and for Israel.  
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ever since Rabin was murdered, policy making in Israel has been only with short term in mind. The sanctions regime was not really problematic because soon enough players realized it was the only way to prevent Netanyahu from bombing. There was another reassessment (under Reagan) &#8211; it may not be &quot;the one&quot; but it certainly was one. </p>
<p>Nobody gives a damn about human rights unless you are well enough to spend the time and effort and even then its not all too common.</p>
<p> Netanyahu is one dimensional: His only ticket is to prevent a repetition of the Shoah and he views Iran as the central threat. He doesn&#039;t recognize the threat of a binational state, he doesn&#039;t recognize the threat of a non-democratic state, he doesn&#039;t recognize the threat of international delegitimization. Why not ? Because he is certain that he knows the truth. Listen to him when he talks to the world leaders. It&#039;s only him who knows the truth.</p>
<p>Bibi doesn&#039;t have an end game &#8211; his end game is survival, both for himself politically and for Israel.  </p>
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		<title>By: בן וקסמן</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68108</link>
		<dc:creator>בן וקסמן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68108</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[will gaza be a &quot;gulf war type victory&quot;? no, short of reoccupying it with 3 divisions (which no one, or almost no one wants), that isn&#039;t going to happen.

where i differ from you is what political arrangement should we be shooting for. a hesder with hamas? well, that will mean screwing our erstwhile peace partner, abu mazen.

let&#039;s go for something else, like pushing egypt to open rafiah for civilian supplies or have hamas/egypt be fully responsible for their fuel needs. cut our connections to the greatest extent possible. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>will gaza be a &quot;gulf war type victory&quot;? no, short of reoccupying it with 3 divisions (which no one, or almost no one wants), that isn&#039;t going to happen.</p>
<p>where i differ from you is what political arrangement should we be shooting for. a hesder with hamas? well, that will mean screwing our erstwhile peace partner, abu mazen.</p>
<p>let&#039;s go for something else, like pushing egypt to open rafiah for civilian supplies or have hamas/egypt be fully responsible for their fuel needs. cut our connections to the greatest extent possible. </p>
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		<title>By: עמנואל שחף</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68106</link>
		<dc:creator>עמנואל שחף</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68106</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clarification - Gaza is not a situation where winning is militarily feasible under todays circumstances. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification &#8211; Gaza is not a situation where winning is militarily feasible under todays circumstances. </p>
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		<title>By: עמנואל שחף</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-68104</link>
		<dc:creator>עמנואל שחף</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 09:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-68104</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey guys, relax, I am willing to concede that winning wars is still possible - I am not conceding that this (Gaza) is not the situation and I also insist, that generally speaking, wars are out. Short termed &quot;shock and awe&quot; kind of operations are in and can be valuable. They will not crush the enemy but will inflict heavy damage. Nevertheless, unless the aftermath is used to achieve political arrangements, it will be a waste. That&#039;s what we insist on doing - wasting opportunities gained in blood.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey guys, relax, I am willing to concede that winning wars is still possible &#8211; I am not conceding that this (Gaza) is not the situation and I also insist, that generally speaking, wars are out. Short termed &quot;shock and awe&quot; kind of operations are in and can be valuable. They will not crush the enemy but will inflict heavy damage. Nevertheless, unless the aftermath is used to achieve political arrangements, it will be a waste. That&#039;s what we insist on doing &#8211; wasting opportunities gained in blood.</p>
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		<title>By: Yonatan Knickerbocker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-67892</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonatan Knickerbocker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-67892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really Emanuel? You&#039;re going to write that when my words are clearly printed a few inches above? Here let me paste the relevant section for you &quot;Crush the enemy. Don&#039;t stop until they get to the point that they will never wage war against you again. They can decide where that line is.&quot; My words are very clear, stop adding something to them that is not there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really Emanuel? You&#039;re going to write that when my words are clearly printed a few inches above? Here let me paste the relevant section for you &quot;Crush the enemy. Don&#039;t stop until they get to the point that they will never wage war against you again. They can decide where that line is.&quot; My words are very clear, stop adding something to them that is not there.</p>
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		<title>By: בן וקסמן</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-67894</link>
		<dc:creator>בן וקסמן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-67894</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[right now we are paying the price for a critical policy decision that  was agreed upon by all the &quot;right people&quot; but was taken very hastily, without much thought of the future and against the warnings of people as different as uri avinery and bibi netanyahu. both of them turned out to be right.  

bibi was the one who got the world to impose sanctions; he didn&#039;t start off by bombing the centrifuges. he isn&#039;t that one dimensional. if shelly would tell me something different in private, great. but i am not in the position for a one on one talk with her. and to tell the truth, i couldn&#039;t care less what shaul said. he changes his position weekly. 

btw: the reassessment was in the seventies. it was a kissenger tactic (then sec state of gerald ford) to get rabin (first term) to back down. 

the palestinians are an excuse for egyptians not to like us. they don&#039;t give a damn about other human rights violations. they don&#039;t break ties with sudan for their genocides.

i&#039;d like (more than like) for bibi to spell out what is his end game. i really have no idea. on the other hand, i refuse to accept the demonization that people do with him.  even ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>right now we are paying the price for a critical policy decision that  was agreed upon by all the &quot;right people&quot; but was taken very hastily, without much thought of the future and against the warnings of people as different as uri avinery and bibi netanyahu. both of them turned out to be right.  </p>
<p>bibi was the one who got the world to impose sanctions; he didn&#039;t start off by bombing the centrifuges. he isn&#039;t that one dimensional. if shelly would tell me something different in private, great. but i am not in the position for a one on one talk with her. and to tell the truth, i couldn&#039;t care less what shaul said. he changes his position weekly. </p>
<p>btw: the reassessment was in the seventies. it was a kissenger tactic (then sec state of gerald ford) to get rabin (first term) to back down. </p>
<p>the palestinians are an excuse for egyptians not to like us. they don&#039;t give a damn about other human rights violations. they don&#039;t break ties with sudan for their genocides.</p>
<p>i&#039;d like (more than like) for bibi to spell out what is his end game. i really have no idea. on the other hand, i refuse to accept the demonization that people do with him.  even </p>
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		<title>By: בן וקסמן</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-67890</link>
		<dc:creator>בן וקסמן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-67890</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[you&#039;re measuring crushing by the tonnage of bombs dropped? in every example i gave one side defeated the other, there was no &quot;each side quitting and declaring victory&quot; nor bringing in international forces.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#039;re measuring crushing by the tonnage of bombs dropped? in every example i gave one side defeated the other, there was no &quot;each side quitting and declaring victory&quot; nor bringing in international forces.</p>
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		<title>By: עמנואל שחף</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-67888</link>
		<dc:creator>עמנואל שחף</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-67888</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ בן וקסמן That&#039;s not what Jonathan meant by crushing - not even close]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> בן וקסמן That&#039;s not what Jonathan meant by crushing &#8211; not even close</p>
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		<title>By: עמנואל שחף</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-67694</link>
		<dc:creator>עמנואל שחף</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-67694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Europe at this time is not reorienting in our favor - we are swimming against the stream. Our poll numbers are going down all over. Consitently.

 I agree with you that the jury is out on the Arab spring - I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a desaster for us if we start playing the game -  but it definitely is more of a problem than non-democratic governments were - with them you could do business. When the people don&#039;t like you (and they don&#039;t as long as you don&#039;t give Palestinians their due) you are in a lot deeper water. You cannot count on the Egyptian government like you could before - Mursi has to keep the street in check. It&#039;s true that he can&#039;t do that without US wheat but if we put enough pressure on him (like with Gaza) it could easily force his hand. So far he seems to be doing a lot better than expected. I hope it stays that way.

 The Iran problem is being dealt with obsessively and only from one point of view : to bomb or not.The issues, as you recognize, are alot more complicated and the fact that Shelly and Shaul see eye to eye with Bibi over the seriousness of the problem doesn&#039;t require me to take the same position. What heads of political parties do is called &quot;posturing&quot;. Does it reflect their real views ? You have to ask them in private. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if we were surprised. 

While the US and Israel do have common interests, we have lately made a considerable effort to ignore US interests. It&#039;s only a matter of time before this will come to haunt us. Having been in the military during the US &quot;reassessment&quot; in the 80ties I can tell you that it wasn&#039;t the best of times.

Fact is that Netanyahu is running this country without looking around, without taking into consideration the concerns of others. Many others.  There will be a price to pay for this. We&#039;ll pay it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Europe at this time is not reorienting in our favor &#8211; we are swimming against the stream. Our poll numbers are going down all over. Consitently.</p>
<p> I agree with you that the jury is out on the Arab spring &#8211; I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a desaster for us if we start playing the game &#8211;  but it definitely is more of a problem than non-democratic governments were &#8211; with them you could do business. When the people don&#039;t like you (and they don&#039;t as long as you don&#039;t give Palestinians their due) you are in a lot deeper water. You cannot count on the Egyptian government like you could before &#8211; Mursi has to keep the street in check. It&#039;s true that he can&#039;t do that without US wheat but if we put enough pressure on him (like with Gaza) it could easily force his hand. So far he seems to be doing a lot better than expected. I hope it stays that way.</p>
<p> The Iran problem is being dealt with obsessively and only from one point of view : to bomb or not.The issues, as you recognize, are alot more complicated and the fact that Shelly and Shaul see eye to eye with Bibi over the seriousness of the problem doesn&#039;t require me to take the same position. What heads of political parties do is called &quot;posturing&quot;. Does it reflect their real views ? You have to ask them in private. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if we were surprised. </p>
<p>While the US and Israel do have common interests, we have lately made a considerable effort to ignore US interests. It&#039;s only a matter of time before this will come to haunt us. Having been in the military during the US &quot;reassessment&quot; in the 80ties I can tell you that it wasn&#039;t the best of times.</p>
<p>Fact is that Netanyahu is running this country without looking around, without taking into consideration the concerns of others. Many others.  There will be a price to pay for this. We&#039;ll pay it.</p>
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		<title>By: בן וקסמן</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crash-of-2013/#comment-67646</link>
		<dc:creator>בן וקסמן</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=79238#comment-67646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[actually iraq was also crushed in the first gulf war.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>actually iraq was also crushed in the first gulf war.</p>
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