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	<title>Comments on: The crime of wearing a tallit</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/</link>
	<description>The Marketplace of Ideas</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 05:09:23 +0300</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Svietka Rivilis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-96270</link>
		<dc:creator>Svietka Rivilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-96270</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[how about next time u come for your annual visit u make sure to join the jews on temple mount and say SHMA ISRAEL out loud...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>how about next time u come for your annual visit u make sure to join the jews on temple mount and say SHMA ISRAEL out loud&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Svietka Rivilis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-96276</link>
		<dc:creator>Svietka Rivilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-96276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Andy-usually i agree with u:):) but it is not true-most of these women r not butch or lesbis...not that it would make any difference:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy-usually i agree with u:):) but it is not true-most of these women r not butch or lesbis&#8230;not that it would make any difference:)</p>
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		<title>By: Svietka Rivilis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-96278</link>
		<dc:creator>Svietka Rivilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-96278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[eddy must have had some serious brownies he backed for himself  before retiring... i mean serious brownies ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eddy must have had some serious brownies he backed for himself  before retiring&#8230; i mean serious brownies </p>
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		<title>By: Svietka Rivilis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-96274</link>
		<dc:creator>Svietka Rivilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-96274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[for somebody who is not jewish and doesnt know much about our religion/traditions and laws u sure r sure of many things...i m sure your sureness should surely be examined]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>for somebody who is not jewish and doesnt know much about our religion/traditions and laws u sure r sure of many things&#8230;i m sure your sureness should surely be examined</p>
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		<title>By: Svietka Rivilis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-96272</link>
		<dc:creator>Svietka Rivilis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2013 17:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-96272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ Tuvia Fogel --i will fight u for that title--I M the queen...and what&#039;s England?
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Tuvia Fogel &#8211;i will fight u for that title&#8211;I M the queen&#8230;and what&#039;s England?</p>
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		<title>By: Yishai Kohen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95774</link>
		<dc:creator>Yishai Kohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alex Goldberg The Vatican is a holy site to all Catholics and a mosque is a holy site to all Muslims.

In order to maintain the proper holiness and availability to ALL Jews, the Kotel is the way it is. Giving in to the whims of every heterodox group and their own theological proclivities debases the Kotel- and the nation of Israel.

And while you might come and visit once in a while- maybe even say a quick prayer- or not, 99+% of those who pray there regularly are Orthodox).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex Goldberg The Vatican is a holy site to all Catholics and a mosque is a holy site to all Muslims.</p>
<p>In order to maintain the proper holiness and availability to ALL Jews, the Kotel is the way it is. Giving in to the whims of every heterodox group and their own theological proclivities debases the Kotel- and the nation of Israel.</p>
<p>And while you might come and visit once in a while- maybe even say a quick prayer- or not, 99+% of those who pray there regularly are Orthodox).</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Minuk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95510</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Minuk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:29:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s sad that you&#039;re probably not a troll...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s sad that you&#039;re probably not a troll&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Piotr Sitarek</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95480</link>
		<dc:creator>Piotr Sitarek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see the feminist nuns analogy is making a career here :) Is it really more like holding mass or more like individual prayer? Holding mass is an official act in Catholic teaching, that only the priest can do and only under specific circumstances. It also involves a community of worshipers. So while I agree the feminist nuns would not be allowed to perform their mass in the St. Peter&#039;s basilia, I very much doubt whether a protestant female priest would be thrown out if she entered wearing her priestly robes in order to engage in individual prayer. At least I hope so.

Even feminist nuns would not be arrested, I think, by the state police, if they held their mass in the public space. The priests could condemn them all they wanted, but the involvement of the state and its apparatus of law enforcement might be problematic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the feminist nuns analogy is making a career here <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Is it really more like holding mass or more like individual prayer? Holding mass is an official act in Catholic teaching, that only the priest can do and only under specific circumstances. It also involves a community of worshipers. So while I agree the feminist nuns would not be allowed to perform their mass in the St. Peter&#039;s basilia, I very much doubt whether a protestant female priest would be thrown out if she entered wearing her priestly robes in order to engage in individual prayer. At least I hope so.</p>
<p>Even feminist nuns would not be arrested, I think, by the state police, if they held their mass in the public space. The priests could condemn them all they wanted, but the involvement of the state and its apparatus of law enforcement might be problematic.</p>
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		<title>By: Victor Shikhman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95242</link>
		<dc:creator>Victor Shikhman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 05:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95242</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Judaism may have any number of schismatic factions competing for authenticity - Christianity merely being one of the most historically successful. What&#039;s to stop Jews for Jesus, for example, from proselytizing at the Wall and claiming any opposition is an interference with their rights to worship freely as they see fit? Yet, clearly, this would be a provocation to the overwhelming majority which could lead to a serious disturbance of the public order that society has an interest in avoiding (through government action).

We&#039;re all willing to draw the line somewhere. But what gives us the right to do so, if the freedom of religious expression is an absolute, unrestricted right? Who are you to say where Judaism begins and ends? Why shouldn&#039;t any group (why limit it to Jews?) have the right of worship at the Wall in the manner that they see fit?

Life is full of such moral, religious and intellectual conflicts, and we Jews tend to solve them through consensus and compromise. In the case of WoW, far from being persecuted, they were offered a place to worship by the Robinson Arch, which is actually closer to the Holy of Holies. If all they were interested in was to express their faith in the manner they wished, it was offered to them. But let&#039;s face it, as Anat Hoffman has done, to her credit, and on more than one occasion - the point of these regular provocations is not to engage in divine service, but to pick a fight with the normative, halacha-accepting (if not observing) Jewish community, to drag that community into a confrontation it&#039;s done everything possible to avoid, and then portray themselves as victims of the oppressive majority.

No one wants to see middle-aged Jewish women being removed from the kotel (they&#039;re invariable released from custody within hours, not waterboarded or sent to a Siberian gulag, mind you). But that&#039;s precisely why a small group of these women continue putting themselves in that situation, to generate publicity and manipulate public sympathy in order to cover up their extremist agenda, in which compromise with and respect for the overwhelming majority of the Jewish people is not a high priority.

To those comparing the actions of Israeli police to the Soviet KGB, the correct analogy would be if Chassidic Jews took over the Kremlin in 1950 and demanded that Stalin and the entire Soviet government either vacate the premises from 8am-10am each morning, or else conduct their business to the sound of a Torah reading. Stalin would then try to reach a compromise whereby only half the Kremlin could be used for Jewish prayer services between the hours of 8-10am, which the Jews would reject. Then, as these Jews were being escorted from the Kremlin, they would scream &quot;oppression, we demand our freedom of worship&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judaism may have any number of schismatic factions competing for authenticity &#8211; Christianity merely being one of the most historically successful. What&#039;s to stop Jews for Jesus, for example, from proselytizing at the Wall and claiming any opposition is an interference with their rights to worship freely as they see fit? Yet, clearly, this would be a provocation to the overwhelming majority which could lead to a serious disturbance of the public order that society has an interest in avoiding (through government action).</p>
<p>We&#039;re all willing to draw the line somewhere. But what gives us the right to do so, if the freedom of religious expression is an absolute, unrestricted right? Who are you to say where Judaism begins and ends? Why shouldn&#039;t any group (why limit it to Jews?) have the right of worship at the Wall in the manner that they see fit?</p>
<p>Life is full of such moral, religious and intellectual conflicts, and we Jews tend to solve them through consensus and compromise. In the case of WoW, far from being persecuted, they were offered a place to worship by the Robinson Arch, which is actually closer to the Holy of Holies. If all they were interested in was to express their faith in the manner they wished, it was offered to them. But let&#039;s face it, as Anat Hoffman has done, to her credit, and on more than one occasion &#8211; the point of these regular provocations is not to engage in divine service, but to pick a fight with the normative, halacha-accepting (if not observing) Jewish community, to drag that community into a confrontation it&#039;s done everything possible to avoid, and then portray themselves as victims of the oppressive majority.</p>
<p>No one wants to see middle-aged Jewish women being removed from the kotel (they&#039;re invariable released from custody within hours, not waterboarded or sent to a Siberian gulag, mind you). But that&#039;s precisely why a small group of these women continue putting themselves in that situation, to generate publicity and manipulate public sympathy in order to cover up their extremist agenda, in which compromise with and respect for the overwhelming majority of the Jewish people is not a high priority.</p>
<p>To those comparing the actions of Israeli police to the Soviet KGB, the correct analogy would be if Chassidic Jews took over the Kremlin in 1950 and demanded that Stalin and the entire Soviet government either vacate the premises from 8am-10am each morning, or else conduct their business to the sound of a Torah reading. Stalin would then try to reach a compromise whereby only half the Kremlin could be used for Jewish prayer services between the hours of 8-10am, which the Jews would reject. Then, as these Jews were being escorted from the Kremlin, they would scream &quot;oppression, we demand our freedom of worship&quot;.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Kofman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95250</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi Kofman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 05:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fact is not only would they not use the same chutzpah but on the contrary if they ever met with members of the Wakf, visited any random mosque or a Muslim country, they would wear either a hijab or burkah - depending on how religious their respective Muslim hosts were. And like so many of the loony left before them, they would apply cultural relativism to excuse, justify and/or turn a blind eye to the appalling treatment of women and girls in Islamic society not to mention many other gross human rights violations and acts of voilence. It&#039;s easy to cast oneself as a &quot;dissident&quot; (making ridiciolous comparisions to the USSR or even applying godwin&#039;s law) and challenge an authority where you know there are going to be no real consequences. On the other hand, not many people would want to be in Salman rush die&#039;s shoes. This is why this  whole issue has never been about &quot;women&#039;s rights&quot; and &quot;equality&quot;...just like Korach before them, it&#039;s just a red herring and a guise to promote their naracism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fact is not only would they not use the same chutzpah but on the contrary if they ever met with members of the Wakf, visited any random mosque or a Muslim country, they would wear either a hijab or burkah &#8211; depending on how religious their respective Muslim hosts were. And like so many of the loony left before them, they would apply cultural relativism to excuse, justify and/or turn a blind eye to the appalling treatment of women and girls in Islamic society not to mention many other gross human rights violations and acts of voilence. It&#039;s easy to cast oneself as a &quot;dissident&quot; (making ridiciolous comparisions to the USSR or even applying godwin&#039;s law) and challenge an authority where you know there are going to be no real consequences. On the other hand, not many people would want to be in Salman rush die&#039;s shoes. This is why this  whole issue has never been about &quot;women&#039;s rights&quot; and &quot;equality&quot;&#8230;just like Korach before them, it&#039;s just a red herring and a guise to promote their naracism.</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Kofman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95254</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi Kofman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 04:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95254</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Google godwin&#039;s law...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google godwin&#039;s law&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Levi Kofman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95246</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi Kofman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 01:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sarah, he really meant the &quot;book of smurfs&quot;...it&#039;s somewhere there in the Tanach. The smurfs all dressed alike...even the females. It&#039;s a very popular book...many &quot;rabbis&quot; were ordained by being tested solely on this book. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, he really meant the &quot;book of smurfs&quot;&#8230;it&#039;s somewhere there in the Tanach. The smurfs all dressed alike&#8230;even the females. It&#039;s a very popular book&#8230;many &quot;rabbis&quot; were ordained by being tested solely on this book. </p>
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		<title>By: Levi Kofman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95244</link>
		<dc:creator>Levi Kofman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Feb 2013 00:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95244</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Or maybe they do go to weddings dressed like that...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe they do go to weddings dressed like that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Yonatan Knickerbocker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95252</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonatan Knickerbocker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seriously? Carter? Please feel free to get a clue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously? Carter? Please feel free to get a clue.</p>
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		<title>By: Yonatan Knickerbocker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/the-crime-of-wearing-a-tallit/#comment-95248</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonatan Knickerbocker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 23:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=101980#comment-95248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Who only want...What do you know about what they only want? This is it huh? There&#039;s nothing else? Remove the mechitzah perhaps? More? You don&#039;t know what they want, only what they want you to know right now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who only want&#8230;What do you know about what they only want? This is it huh? There&#039;s nothing else? Remove the mechitzah perhaps? More? You don&#039;t know what they want, only what they want you to know right now.</p>
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