Comments on: Equalizing the national burden has waited long enough

By: Yitzchok Mickler

Yitzchok Mickler — Wed, 16 Jan 2013 13:22:29 +0000

The yeshivas themselves would choose the "best learners" based on nepotism and proteksia.
Drafting 18 year-old bochurim is not the thing to do in 2013. If older men in their upper twenties and thirties serve and are seen to prosper, that will make it more attractive for the younger people. Don't expect a 65 year-old situation to change overnight.

By: Yedidya Kennard

Yedidya Kennard — Wed, 16 Jan 2013 09:10:15 +0000

You had the largest coalition in the history of Israel, built with the sole purpose of equalizing the draft. Yesh Atid know very well that slogans are meaningless, as you so clearly demonstrated last year. Yesh Atid know that we need not slogans, but a detailed, practical, realistic plan, and that is what they are proposing.

Jason – why did we even need to wait till this next government?

By: Jeremy Man Saltan

Jeremy Man Saltan — Wed, 16 Jan 2013 00:12:42 +0000

Here is a Youtube video that explains the Bayit Yehudi position. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSwCtvH9838&feature=youtu.be

By: Yisrael Beytenu

Yisrael Beytenu — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 22:03:43 +0000

Darren, actually the idea that some should go an defend the nation while others sit and learn is completely foreign to Judaism. In fact, the opposite is true. There is a concept of Milchemet Mitzva which says that during obligatory wars even a groom must go to war from the Chuppah. No one is saying that anyone should stop learning. There is Nachal Haredi, Hesder and many other programs which combine service and learning. We are asking for a short amount of time to perform service for the country. If it is not in the army, people can serve in soup kitchens, old-age homes, schools, etc. Call it Chesed!

By: Yisrael Beytenu

Yisrael Beytenu — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:58:32 +0000

Yedidya, we believe 64 years is a long enough waiting period. Yesh Atid know very well that their 5 year waiting period will not be over before the next elections, so they can hedge their bets while promising much and delivering little.

By: Yisrael Beytenu

Yisrael Beytenu — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:56:44 +0000

The Yisrael Beytenu bill is about one thing, making benefits commensurate with contribution. For too long we have had a situation where everyone benefits, but only some contribute. We ahve to draw a line in the sand and say that those who contribute most, will benefit most. Those who contribute least, will benefit least. That is the social contract that we aim to restore with the citizen. Jeremy, is there something in this aspiration that troubles you?

By: Jason Pearlman

Jason Pearlman — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:56:15 +0000

Not at all, but we do not need to wait five years…. till the next government!

By: Edward Levey

Edward Levey — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 16:17:21 +0000

Darren was suggesting that there is such a thing as a "best learner", which is nonsense on stilts, to put it mildly. I'd love to know how that would be assessed and according to what criterion. Who would the "examiners" be for the purpose of this utterly bizarre selection programme? And why should the "not so good learners" have the option of doing community service instead of military service? Unless, of course, you are advocating a system whereby chilonim and charedim alike had that option, but I doubt that that is what Darren has in mind.

By: Jubal Biggs

Jubal Biggs — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 13:59:29 +0000

I agree completely. Volunteer force. The people who actually fight in the IDF are volunteers anyway, since you have to get through a gibbush to get there. The ones who we would lose are the losers who take up space and uniforms at Bakum and eat at the McDonalds there every day.

By: Josh Feigenbaum

Josh Feigenbaum — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 12:51:18 +0000

Um, Jason, wasn't YB once a new sectorial party with an ad hoc agenda? Why is it ok for YB to be created and not YA?

By: Yedidya Kennard

Yedidya Kennard — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:01:44 +0000

Why do you dismiss Yesh Atid simply because they have a detailed plan with a time frame? Do you think that forcing Haredim to enlist immediately, with no adequate or suitable programs in place is an option?

By: Yedidya Kennard

Yedidya Kennard — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 11:01:44 +0000

By: Ilan Toren

Ilan Toren — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:07:53 +0000

One of the reasons that elections were called was that this issue was not going to get solved with the current coalition. The budget was the other and perhaps primary reason though. Can the Likud solve the problem? Can any other party solve the problem? Theoretically a large Likud with a bill that addresses both Hareidi and Israeli Arab sectors could do this. A Labor coalition will need Shas to stay afloat and will be even more dependent susceptible to the pressures not to make any meaningful changes. Historically you can blame the fact that the Rabbinute is more Hareidi than Kipa Sruga on Labor and Kadima which saw concessions to Degel HaTorah convenient and low cost. It is time for tough love (but love). We need, as a society, to first make national service available to the Hariedi and Arab communities and condition certain benefits like housing grants and university spots on the applicants having done national service. Sanctions won't help, IMHO, but there are plenty of carrots in the arsenal.

By: Ilan Toren

Ilan Toren — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 10:07:53 +0000

By: Yitzchok Mickler

Yitzchok Mickler — Tue, 15 Jan 2013 09:23:49 +0000

Darren was suggesting that only the best learners should be exempt from national service. He was not describing the present situation.

Yeshiva students are not exempt from national service – they push off their service one year at a time. Once you are a certain age and have enough children the IDF exempts you from national service and you can then get a job and pay taxes.