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	<title>Comments on: Time to stand up</title>
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		<title>By: Paul Duffill</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-75004</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Duffill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 07:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-75004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[ Yonatan Knickerbocker 

@ Yonatan

Come to think of it are seriously saying that Palestinian families living  in the West Bank and East Jerusalem don&#039;t own the which for many of them their families have lived for generations? What about other families living around the world like Jewish families, or American families, English families, Japanese families? Do you seriously believe they don&#039;t own the land which their families have lived on for generations?

Or is it something about how you feel about Palestinians which makes you think they don&#039;t own the land on which their families have lived for generations?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Yonatan Knickerbocker </p>
<p>@ Yonatan</p>
<p>Come to think of it are seriously saying that Palestinian families living  in the West Bank and East Jerusalem don&#039;t own the which for many of them their families have lived for generations? What about other families living around the world like Jewish families, or American families, English families, Japanese families? Do you seriously believe they don&#039;t own the land which their families have lived on for generations?</p>
<p>Or is it something about how you feel about Palestinians which makes you think they don&#039;t own the land on which their families have lived for generations?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Duffill</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-75002</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Duffill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 05:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-75002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe it is fair to expect Israel to abide by international law that it has already agreed to follow. Israel has agreed to respect the Fourth Geneva Convention, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights; International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child; and UN Security Council Resolutions (in this case Resolutions 446, 452 and 465). 

The problem is that the International Court of Justice&#039;s  July 9, 2004 ruling shows that Israel is in breach of all of these instruments of international law ( in addition to the Fourth Hague Convention which the ICJ has ruled is legally binding customary law).

I believe it would be corrupt and dangerous to allow any country to ignore international law which it has agreed to respect.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe it is fair to expect Israel to abide by international law that it has already agreed to follow. Israel has agreed to respect the Fourth Geneva Convention, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights; International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child; and UN Security Council Resolutions (in this case Resolutions 446, 452 and 465). </p>
<p>The problem is that the International Court of Justice&#039;s  July 9, 2004 ruling shows that Israel is in breach of all of these instruments of international law ( in addition to the Fourth Hague Convention which the ICJ has ruled is legally binding customary law).</p>
<p>I believe it would be corrupt and dangerous to allow any country to ignore international law which it has agreed to respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Duffill</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-75000</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Duffill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Dec 2012 05:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-75000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you&#039;ve misunderstood my comment. Let me be very clear on the legal facts : It&#039;s not just my assertion that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land. This is the legal ruling of the International Court of Justice in their ruling  on July 9, 2004 entitled &quot;Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory&quot;. For the full ruling see: http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1671.pdf. The state of Israel&#039;s illegal occupation of Palestinian land is a clear fact of international law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#039;ve misunderstood my comment. Let me be very clear on the legal facts : It&#039;s not just my assertion that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land. This is the legal ruling of the International Court of Justice in their ruling  on July 9, 2004 entitled &quot;Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory&quot;. For the full ruling see: <a href="http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1671.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1671.pdf</a>. The state of Israel&#039;s illegal occupation of Palestinian land is a clear fact of international law.</p>
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		<title>By: Yonatan Knickerbocker</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-74998</link>
		<dc:creator>Yonatan Knickerbocker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-74998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your assertion that the Palestinians own the land in question is laughable. Talk about building your case on shaky grounds.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your assertion that the Palestinians own the land in question is laughable. Talk about building your case on shaky grounds.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-74996</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-74996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[WHAT is a tiny outnumber nation(Israel) surrounded by those who want to wipe them out to do when the greedy Arabs use the corrupt courts and the gangster,bully international community of hypocrites to accomplish their agenda ?
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/arabwrld.htm
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WHAT is a tiny outnumber nation(Israel) surrounded by those who want to wipe them out to do when the greedy Arabs use the corrupt courts and the gangster,bully international community of hypocrites to accomplish their agenda ?<br />
<a href="http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/arabwrld.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/arabwrld.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Paul Duffill</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-72900</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Duffill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 18:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-72900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mike, are you suggesting that it is racist to say that Jewish Isaelis should not be allowed to build anywhere they like in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? The right to build in a place requires that you are the legal owner of that land in the first place. To simply take land which you do not own and then build on it is illegal, and should be called for what it is: theft. Unfortunately this is the case with Israeli building projects and settlements built in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. This is established legal fact: On July 9, 2004 The International Court of Justice, the world&#039;s highest authority on international law, issued a ruling establishing that &quot;The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law&quot; (see p.69 of the English language judgement here: http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1671.pdf). 

On the settlements the judgment states that: &quot;Settlements established by Israel in breach of international law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory - Construction of the wall and its associuted regime create a &#039;fait accompli&#039; on the ground that could well become permanent - Risk of situation tantamount to de facto annexation&quot; (see p.5). One of the numerous violations is of Article 49, Paragraph 6 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (which a total of 194 countries including Israel, the US, and Australia have signed) which states that &quot;The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies&quot;. The State of Israel&#039;s specific breaches of international law are outlined in the International Court of Justice&#039;s judgment on p.51, p.57, p.59-60, all of which Israel has agreed to be abide by (with the sole exception of the Fourth Hague Convention which the ICJ has ruled is legally binding customary law anyway). It&#039;s important to be very clear that the state of Israel building on illegally occupied Palestinian land is not, as you seem to believe &quot;considered perfectly normal behavior for everyone on the planet&quot;.

In criticising the State of Israel&#039;s theft of land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and building of illegal settlements on this land (including stealing more land to enlarge existing illegal settlements) Obama is simply calling on Israel to follow international law. Understandably you are concerned (as am I) that Jews be treated like &quot;normal human beings&quot;. Mike, I am sure you would agree that &quot;normal human beings&quot; should be free to build houses on land they actually own, not someone else&#039;s.  Claiming the land of people who already live somewhere (eg Palestinian Arabs in who live in Palestine) just because they are not a certain ethnic/religious group (eg not Jewish), now isn&#039;t that racism? 

Someone consistently applying standards of fairness to other groups AND their own religious/ethnic/identity group: now that&#039;s what takes cajones.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, are you suggesting that it is racist to say that Jewish Isaelis should not be allowed to build anywhere they like in the West Bank and East Jerusalem? The right to build in a place requires that you are the legal owner of that land in the first place. To simply take land which you do not own and then build on it is illegal, and should be called for what it is: theft. Unfortunately this is the case with Israeli building projects and settlements built in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. This is established legal fact: On July 9, 2004 The International Court of Justice, the world&#039;s highest authority on international law, issued a ruling establishing that &quot;The construction of the wall being built by Israel, the occupying Power, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including in and around East Jerusalem, and its associated régime, are contrary to international law&quot; (see p.69 of the English language judgement here: <a href="http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1671.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/131/1671.pdf</a>). </p>
<p>On the settlements the judgment states that: &quot;Settlements established by Israel in breach of international law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory &#8211; Construction of the wall and its associuted regime create a &#039;fait accompli&#039; on the ground that could well become permanent &#8211; Risk of situation tantamount to de facto annexation&quot; (see p.5). One of the numerous violations is of Article 49, Paragraph 6 of the Fourth Geneva Convention (which a total of 194 countries including Israel, the US, and Australia have signed) which states that &quot;The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies&quot;. The State of Israel&#039;s specific breaches of international law are outlined in the International Court of Justice&#039;s judgment on p.51, p.57, p.59-60, all of which Israel has agreed to be abide by (with the sole exception of the Fourth Hague Convention which the ICJ has ruled is legally binding customary law anyway). It&#039;s important to be very clear that the state of Israel building on illegally occupied Palestinian land is not, as you seem to believe &quot;considered perfectly normal behavior for everyone on the planet&quot;.</p>
<p>In criticising the State of Israel&#039;s theft of land in the West Bank and East Jerusalem and building of illegal settlements on this land (including stealing more land to enlarge existing illegal settlements) Obama is simply calling on Israel to follow international law. Understandably you are concerned (as am I) that Jews be treated like &quot;normal human beings&quot;. Mike, I am sure you would agree that &quot;normal human beings&quot; should be free to build houses on land they actually own, not someone else&#039;s.  Claiming the land of people who already live somewhere (eg Palestinian Arabs in who live in Palestine) just because they are not a certain ethnic/religious group (eg not Jewish), now isn&#039;t that racism? </p>
<p>Someone consistently applying standards of fairness to other groups AND their own religious/ethnic/identity group: now that&#039;s what takes cajones.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Mogerman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-72904</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Mogerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 01:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-72904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Since you didn&#039;t actually read my reply, and the article you linked to is irrelevant to this discussion, I&#039;m going to avoid responding in any substantive way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you didn&#039;t actually read my reply, and the article you linked to is irrelevant to this discussion, I&#039;m going to avoid responding in any substantive way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-72902</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 00:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-72902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry but you just rattled off the same failed lackey agenda that has turned Israel into the bullied &quot;KICK ME&#039; boy in the neighborhood of nations. 
It&#039;s a sad day in Israel when the women have more balls then the men.  
http://sarahhonig.com/2012/11/30/another-tack-murdochs-cogent-question/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m sorry but you just rattled off the same failed lackey agenda that has turned Israel into the bullied &quot;KICK ME&#039; boy in the neighborhood of nations.<br />
It&#039;s a sad day in Israel when the women have more balls then the men.<br />
<a href="http://sarahhonig.com/2012/11/30/another-tack-murdochs-cogent-question/" rel="nofollow">http://sarahhonig.com/2012/11/30/another-tack-murdochs-cogent-question/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Mogerman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-72898</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Mogerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Dec 2012 00:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-72898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m sorry, but you just rattled off talking points that add nothing to the conversation. You claim Obama is unfriendly to Israel, and implying that he is so to a greater extent than other US presidents. Examples, please? 

We shouldn&#039;t alienate ourselves, but we should continue pursuing policies that are alienating us? What? I understand you may have some sentimental attachment to Judea and Samaria (how can you not?), but how does this pursue peace? In my mind, people come before land. And I&#039;m certainly not suggesting that stopping settlements will bring peace magically, but exacerbating the problem certainly hasn&#039;t helped things (note: I&#039;m with you as far as Jerusalem is concerned).

Isn&#039;t it a little racist to blanket label a whole people as one thing or another? No doubt racist elements exist within Palestinian society, and hell given the situation I&#039;d even grant that it&#039;s deeply penetrating. But the way you talk about &quot;the Palestinians&quot; betrays any kind of empathy that you are wanting for the Jews (unless I&#039;ve misread and you mean specific groups, there&#039;s more Palestinians than Hamas charters can claim to represent).

You say that Israel no longer needs military aid from the US, and simply leave it unsubstantiated. Taxes in Israel are already insane because of military spending, could a country that has such increasing rates of poverty actually sustain itself without it? Are you in the government, looking at the figures? Oh, you&#039;re not even in Israel? Hmm. I thought I was talking to a Zionist.

The hard part now, as Jews with an actual grasp on real-world power, is not &quot;standing up for ourselves&quot;. It is taking a look in the mirror and realizing that, with a state, we operate now in this system of political powers. We are no longer wandering, we have a very real will and abilities. We also, like other peoples, have a very real capacity for hubris and, dare I say, evil. Are you operating on a notion that Moshiach will come once every dunam of Ancient Israel (presumably the ones also inconveniently stretching into Jordan) is populated with Jewish bricks? If not, why is the eventual and inevitable demise of Jewish and democratic Israel in this set up preferable to another situation? After a century of national liberation and rejuvination, it is time to look towards the future on the ground and not in the clouds.

Also, I believe you meant ביצים, not cajones. Maybe I&#039;ll see you here sometime.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;m sorry, but you just rattled off talking points that add nothing to the conversation. You claim Obama is unfriendly to Israel, and implying that he is so to a greater extent than other US presidents. Examples, please? </p>
<p>We shouldn&#039;t alienate ourselves, but we should continue pursuing policies that are alienating us? What? I understand you may have some sentimental attachment to Judea and Samaria (how can you not?), but how does this pursue peace? In my mind, people come before land. And I&#039;m certainly not suggesting that stopping settlements will bring peace magically, but exacerbating the problem certainly hasn&#039;t helped things (note: I&#039;m with you as far as Jerusalem is concerned).</p>
<p>Isn&#039;t it a little racist to blanket label a whole people as one thing or another? No doubt racist elements exist within Palestinian society, and hell given the situation I&#039;d even grant that it&#039;s deeply penetrating. But the way you talk about &quot;the Palestinians&quot; betrays any kind of empathy that you are wanting for the Jews (unless I&#039;ve misread and you mean specific groups, there&#039;s more Palestinians than Hamas charters can claim to represent).</p>
<p>You say that Israel no longer needs military aid from the US, and simply leave it unsubstantiated. Taxes in Israel are already insane because of military spending, could a country that has such increasing rates of poverty actually sustain itself without it? Are you in the government, looking at the figures? Oh, you&#039;re not even in Israel? Hmm. I thought I was talking to a Zionist.</p>
<p>The hard part now, as Jews with an actual grasp on real-world power, is not &quot;standing up for ourselves&quot;. It is taking a look in the mirror and realizing that, with a state, we operate now in this system of political powers. We are no longer wandering, we have a very real will and abilities. We also, like other peoples, have a very real capacity for hubris and, dare I say, evil. Are you operating on a notion that Moshiach will come once every dunam of Ancient Israel (presumably the ones also inconveniently stretching into Jordan) is populated with Jewish bricks? If not, why is the eventual and inevitable demise of Jewish and democratic Israel in this set up preferable to another situation? After a century of national liberation and rejuvination, it is time to look towards the future on the ground and not in the clouds.</p>
<p>Also, I believe you meant ביצים, not cajones. Maybe I&#039;ll see you here sometime.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/time-to-stand-up/#comment-72896</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2012 23:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=83414#comment-72896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We need to free ourselves from the Oslo Delusion,
We need to free ourselves from the United Nations.
There comes a point in all of our lives where we need to stand up, say “NO,” and then walk away.

For that to happen Israel has to dump the failed, failed, failed secular leaders who have proven incapable of saying &quot;NO&quot; since Moshe Dayan turned over the JEWISH Temple Mount to the murderers immediately after their attempted genocide of Jews. Kindness to evil never works!
For that to happen Israel must put the agenda of the Holy One of Israel before the agenda of Washington which are exactly opposite. 
BUILD, BUILD, BUILD.
The faith challenged grasshoppers of Israel (especially Netanyahu/Barak who always back down and retreat).
have proven their inability to lead Israel so they follow an evil FOREIGN agenda that leads to great misery and suffering for all of Israel.   
This mercy to the cruel insanity that Israel follows will eventually have to end.
We need to free ourselves from slavery to America Babylon and it&#039;s diabolical bully agenda and never ending trampling of Israel&#039;s sovereignty that is all aboutl destroying Israel under their farce 2 state peace lie.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need to free ourselves from the Oslo Delusion,<br />
We need to free ourselves from the United Nations.<br />
There comes a point in all of our lives where we need to stand up, say “NO,” and then walk away.</p>
<p>For that to happen Israel has to dump the failed, failed, failed secular leaders who have proven incapable of saying &quot;NO&quot; since Moshe Dayan turned over the JEWISH Temple Mount to the murderers immediately after their attempted genocide of Jews. Kindness to evil never works!<br />
For that to happen Israel must put the agenda of the Holy One of Israel before the agenda of Washington which are exactly opposite.<br />
BUILD, BUILD, BUILD.<br />
The faith challenged grasshoppers of Israel (especially Netanyahu/Barak who always back down and retreat).<br />
have proven their inability to lead Israel so they follow an evil FOREIGN agenda that leads to great misery and suffering for all of Israel.<br />
This mercy to the cruel insanity that Israel follows will eventually have to end.<br />
We need to free ourselves from slavery to America Babylon and it&#039;s diabolical bully agenda and never ending trampling of Israel&#039;s sovereignty that is all aboutl destroying Israel under their farce 2 state peace lie.</p>
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