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	<title>Comments on: A Lithuanian neo-Nazi march: too close for comfort</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 23:35:35 +0300</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Fred Skinkis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-126336</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Skinkis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 May 2013 03:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-126336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[lithwoks here in the U.S. are proud of lithuania,  I say kick ass and take names.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lithwoks here in the U.S. are proud of lithuania,  I say kick ass and take names.</p>
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		<title>By: Pikc Kazinkavicius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97964</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikc Kazinkavicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97964</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As you can see, some people can hardly be reasoned with. It feels as if you’re speaking different languages. You tell them that using anecdotal “testimonies” is not a good idea and discredits the whole Holocaust story (e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQWB36uKkw – btw, I liked the idea “it’s not a lie because in my imagination it’s true” :)) – but in response you get “you neo-Nazi, we have documents that the Holocaust DID happen!”; you tell them that there is a document acquitting Brazaitis (http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/14587689/Brazaiti.isteisinantis.dokumentas.is.JAV=2012-05-21_07-02/ - the article is in Lithuanian, but there is a photo of that document) – and in response: “you neo-Nazi, you glorify war criminals!”; you tell them you agree that killing people is bad, yet you receive “you neo-Nazi, you’re lying – you actually approve of it – I know”. Basically, it all comes down to “this is true because I say so, and if you disagree, you’re such-and-such, your country is such-and-such, and your whole nation is such-and such”. What can I say… The first explanation of such behavior that jumps into mind is fanaticism. Returning to the February 16 march – here’s an interesting video by “Antifa”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=-wZ9XZmYOv0 Swearing in the background comes from a “journalist and historian”, according to the authors of that video. If “antifascist” journalists and historians are like this, then what about “regular antifascists”? Makes you think, doesn’t it? :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you can see, some people can hardly be reasoned with. It feels as if you’re speaking different languages. You tell them that using anecdotal “testimonies” is not a good idea and discredits the whole Holocaust story (e.g. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQWB36uKkw" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SQWB36uKkw</a> – btw, I liked the idea “it’s not a lie because in my imagination it’s true” <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) – but in response you get “you neo-Nazi, we have documents that the Holocaust DID happen!”; you tell them that there is a document acquitting Brazaitis (<a href="http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/14587689/Brazaiti.isteisinantis.dokumentas.is.JAV=2012-05-21_07-02/" rel="nofollow">http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/14587689/Brazaiti.isteisinantis.dokumentas.is.JAV=2012-05-21_07-02/</a> &#8211; the article is in Lithuanian, but there is a photo of that document) – and in response: “you neo-Nazi, you glorify war criminals!”; you tell them you agree that killing people is bad, yet you receive “you neo-Nazi, you’re lying – you actually approve of it – I know”. Basically, it all comes down to “this is true because I say so, and if you disagree, you’re such-and-such, your country is such-and-such, and your whole nation is such-and such”. What can I say… The first explanation of such behavior that jumps into mind is fanaticism. Returning to the February 16 march – here’s an interesting video by “Antifa”. <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#038;v=-wZ9XZmYOv0" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#038;v=-wZ9XZmYOv0</a> Swearing in the background comes from a “journalist and historian”, according to the authors of that video. If “antifascist” journalists and historians are like this, then what about “regular antifascists”? Makes you think, doesn’t it? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Pikc Kazinkavicius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97824</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikc Kazinkavicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97824</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To my mind, being a Nazi necessarily involves two components - the feeling of superiority over other nations, and territorial expansionism (&quot;Lebensraum&quot;). None of the participants of this march uphold such views. We do not think our nation is somehow &quot;special&quot;, &quot;Chosen by God&quot;, or whatsoever, and we do not promote expansion of our territories by any claims (e.g. “God promised us this land&#039;), building of settlements, or anything else - we simply want to be ourselves and live in our country without anyone telling us what to do, what we can celebrate and who should be allowed to do that. Just mind your own business, OK? :) Really, if we decide we want any entertainment – we’ll let you know. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my mind, being a Nazi necessarily involves two components &#8211; the feeling of superiority over other nations, and territorial expansionism (&quot;Lebensraum&quot;). None of the participants of this march uphold such views. We do not think our nation is somehow &quot;special&quot;, &quot;Chosen by God&quot;, or whatsoever, and we do not promote expansion of our territories by any claims (e.g. “God promised us this land&#039;), building of settlements, or anything else &#8211; we simply want to be ourselves and live in our country without anyone telling us what to do, what we can celebrate and who should be allowed to do that. Just mind your own business, OK? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Really, if we decide we want any entertainment – we’ll let you know. <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Pikc Kazinkavicius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97826</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikc Kazinkavicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To my mind, being a Nazi necessarily involves two components - the feeling of superiority over other nations, and territorial expansionism (&quot;Lebensraum&quot;). None of the participants of this march uphold such views. We do not think our nation is somehow &quot;special&quot;, &quot;Chosen by God&quot;, or whatsoever, and we do not promote expansion of our territories by any claims (e.g. “God promised us this land&#039;), building of settlements, or anything else - we simply want to be ourselves and live in our country without anyone telling us what to do, what we can celebrate and who should be allowed to do that. Just mind your own business, OK? :) Really, if we decide we want any entertainment – we’ll let you know. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my mind, being a Nazi necessarily involves two components &#8211; the feeling of superiority over other nations, and territorial expansionism (&quot;Lebensraum&quot;). None of the participants of this march uphold such views. We do not think our nation is somehow &quot;special&quot;, &quot;Chosen by God&quot;, or whatsoever, and we do not promote expansion of our territories by any claims (e.g. “God promised us this land&#039;), building of settlements, or anything else &#8211; we simply want to be ourselves and live in our country without anyone telling us what to do, what we can celebrate and who should be allowed to do that. Just mind your own business, OK? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Really, if we decide we want any entertainment – we’ll let you know. <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Pikc Kazinkavicius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97828</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikc Kazinkavicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Piotr Sitarek: it&#039;s a long story, actually - we&#039;d have to go back to late 80s - early 90s to get the picture. As this discussion - even though providing some explanation to our stance - would be rather off-topic, might be lengthy, and would hardly be interesting to our Nazi-hunting friends here, perhaps we should take it elsewhere? 
Concerning the second part of your comment - well, Poland is still a nation-state, and irrespectively of their origin, ethnicity etc., its citizens have to live by Polish rules. You don&#039;t have any &quot;mini-Ukraine&quot;, &quot;mini-Germany&quot;, &quot;mini-Lithuania&quot;, etc. there. Poles are the &quot;master nation&quot; there due to the simple fact that it’s their home - others have to integrate (which does not equal assimilation). Thus, we come back to this &quot;my house - my rules&quot; thing again - and frankly, I don&#039;t see anything wrong with that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Piotr Sitarek: it&#039;s a long story, actually &#8211; we&#039;d have to go back to late 80s &#8211; early 90s to get the picture. As this discussion &#8211; even though providing some explanation to our stance &#8211; would be rather off-topic, might be lengthy, and would hardly be interesting to our Nazi-hunting friends here, perhaps we should take it elsewhere?<br />
Concerning the second part of your comment &#8211; well, Poland is still a nation-state, and irrespectively of their origin, ethnicity etc., its citizens have to live by Polish rules. You don&#039;t have any &quot;mini-Ukraine&quot;, &quot;mini-Germany&quot;, &quot;mini-Lithuania&quot;, etc. there. Poles are the &quot;master nation&quot; there due to the simple fact that it’s their home &#8211; others have to integrate (which does not equal assimilation). Thus, we come back to this &quot;my house &#8211; my rules&quot; thing again &#8211; and frankly, I don&#039;t see anything wrong with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Pikc Kazinkavicius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97832</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikc Kazinkavicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 19:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Chris Kline: Zu Befehl! Sieg Kline! :D ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris Kline: Zu Befehl! Sieg Kline! <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
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		<title>By: Chris Kline</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97830</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 12:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97830</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, thanks for proving my point, that particular testimony was from a German officer and in fact there is such a vast amount of testimony from Lithuanians, it&#039;s  lost cause on your side a priori, but than that&#039;s what revisionists do, deny the truth. You may want to take it up with Der Spiegel and I am sure they could use some amusement from your delusional rants. You&#039;re like a dim echo of Eichmann at his trial, unable to comprehend the man described in vivid testimony was him. In several pictures of the Kaunas garage massacre, white LAF armbands are clearly visible. How about the Jaeger report ...the meticulous record kept by a German SS officer commanding  a murder unit, an Einsaatzkommando in your country, who among other things documents at length the extensive participation of Lithuanians in his unit and their tremendous blood lust. I am proud to say the report was used to expose Lithuanian war criminals who had emigrated to the US. And now you&#039;re going to cry crocodile tears over the slaughter too? I reiterate there is such a wealth of proven, substantiated documentary data on the whole array of the sickening atrocities carried out by Lithuanians at home and in neighboring countries in Nazi service, your protests are futile against the weight of history. If you re-read your post, it should become more readily apparent whose tone reaches a pathological crescendo, dear troglodyte. In fairness I should know better than to argue with someone of your stripe, but your writing was so loathsome I couldn&#039;t resist. So here&#039;s the report for you...now go back to your cave, I shan&#039;t bother with you again. http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/jaeger-report/htm/img001.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, thanks for proving my point, that particular testimony was from a German officer and in fact there is such a vast amount of testimony from Lithuanians, it&#039;s  lost cause on your side a priori, but than that&#039;s what revisionists do, deny the truth. You may want to take it up with Der Spiegel and I am sure they could use some amusement from your delusional rants. You&#039;re like a dim echo of Eichmann at his trial, unable to comprehend the man described in vivid testimony was him. In several pictures of the Kaunas garage massacre, white LAF armbands are clearly visible. How about the Jaeger report &#8230;the meticulous record kept by a German SS officer commanding  a murder unit, an Einsaatzkommando in your country, who among other things documents at length the extensive participation of Lithuanians in his unit and their tremendous blood lust. I am proud to say the report was used to expose Lithuanian war criminals who had emigrated to the US. And now you&#039;re going to cry crocodile tears over the slaughter too? I reiterate there is such a wealth of proven, substantiated documentary data on the whole array of the sickening atrocities carried out by Lithuanians at home and in neighboring countries in Nazi service, your protests are futile against the weight of history. If you re-read your post, it should become more readily apparent whose tone reaches a pathological crescendo, dear troglodyte. In fairness I should know better than to argue with someone of your stripe, but your writing was so loathsome I couldn&#039;t resist. So here&#039;s the report for you&#8230;now go back to your cave, I shan&#039;t bother with you again. <a href="http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/jaeger-report/htm/img001.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.holocaust-history.org/works/jaeger-report/htm/img001.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Piotr Sitarek</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97726</link>
		<dc:creator>Piotr Sitarek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97726</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Mr Chris Kline, to be honest I probably shouldn&#039;t have commented on the article, as I don&#039;t have enough understanding of the situation in Lithuania. Are those marchers neo-nazi? I don&#039;t know, after following the discussion here I think they definitely should do more to differentiate themselves from them and avoid symbols and people who are at least suspicious. The problem is there and will have to be faced sooner or later. 

Yes, every war-criminal should be treated as such, never honored. If he did it, then he is compromised irregardless of his status in national politics.

But I have to say that I&#039;m amazed that a person of such immense international experience and insight as you present yourself to be would describe a whole nation in such derogatory terms. The whole Lithuanian nation is a bunch of incorrigible bigots, anti-semites and neo-nazis, who can&#039;t even show a Goethe or a Beethoven to justify their existence? Really? A provincial backwater? Is that the enlightened way to speak and, what&#039;s most important, view the world? Frankly, Sir, you sound somehow like a nazi yourself. Contempt and feeling of superiority over your fellow human beings never lead anywhere good. 

A small correction - grand duke Vytautas definitely didn&#039;t lead the army you described (he led just a part of it) - the commander in chief was his older brother, Jogaila.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Chris Kline, to be honest I probably shouldn&#039;t have commented on the article, as I don&#039;t have enough understanding of the situation in Lithuania. Are those marchers neo-nazi? I don&#039;t know, after following the discussion here I think they definitely should do more to differentiate themselves from them and avoid symbols and people who are at least suspicious. The problem is there and will have to be faced sooner or later. </p>
<p>Yes, every war-criminal should be treated as such, never honored. If he did it, then he is compromised irregardless of his status in national politics.</p>
<p>But I have to say that I&#039;m amazed that a person of such immense international experience and insight as you present yourself to be would describe a whole nation in such derogatory terms. The whole Lithuanian nation is a bunch of incorrigible bigots, anti-semites and neo-nazis, who can&#039;t even show a Goethe or a Beethoven to justify their existence? Really? A provincial backwater? Is that the enlightened way to speak and, what&#039;s most important, view the world? Frankly, Sir, you sound somehow like a nazi yourself. Contempt and feeling of superiority over your fellow human beings never lead anywhere good. </p>
<p>A small correction &#8211; grand duke Vytautas definitely didn&#039;t lead the army you described (he led just a part of it) &#8211; the commander in chief was his older brother, Jogaila.</p>
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		<title>By: Piotr Sitarek</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97718</link>
		<dc:creator>Piotr Sitarek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2013 03:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Pikc Kazinkavicius: Thanks, it&#039;s nice talking to you too. Which separatist ethnicity-based group supported by foreign states do you have in mind? I&#039;m sadly terrily ignorant in the matters of Lithuanian politics, so please forgive if the question is very basic.
I think our disagreement is a matter of degree in a way - of course I don&#039;t think that being open to others means forsaking or abandoning your own culture and values. So christman trees shouldn&#039;t be banned and sharia law will never get any support from me. But you don&#039;t have to conduct policy on the basis of the ethnic or similar criteria to achieve that. Polish constitution defines a Polish nation as &quot;all Polish citizens&quot; and their origin, ethnicity, creed etc. is totally irrelevant. I personally like this model, which is - by the way - close to the ideas existing during the best times of Polish culture. That&#039;s when it was best and most creative. What can you say when the best Polish language poets ever, people who elevated it to the greatest hights, are Adomas Mickevičius and Boleslaw Lesman (a poet of Jewish origin). ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Pikc Kazinkavicius: Thanks, it&#039;s nice talking to you too. Which separatist ethnicity-based group supported by foreign states do you have in mind? I&#039;m sadly terrily ignorant in the matters of Lithuanian politics, so please forgive if the question is very basic.<br />
I think our disagreement is a matter of degree in a way &#8211; of course I don&#039;t think that being open to others means forsaking or abandoning your own culture and values. So christman trees shouldn&#039;t be banned and sharia law will never get any support from me. But you don&#039;t have to conduct policy on the basis of the ethnic or similar criteria to achieve that. Polish constitution defines a Polish nation as &quot;all Polish citizens&quot; and their origin, ethnicity, creed etc. is totally irrelevant. I personally like this model, which is &#8211; by the way &#8211; close to the ideas existing during the best times of Polish culture. That&#039;s when it was best and most creative. What can you say when the best Polish language poets ever, people who elevated it to the greatest hights, are Adomas Mickevičius and Boleslaw Lesman (a poet of Jewish origin). </p>
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		<title>By: Pikc Kazinkavicius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97728</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikc Kazinkavicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Geez, at least make such &quot;testimonies&quot; believable. &quot;There were shouts of bravo and clapping, mothers raised their children to give them a better view.&quot;, &quot;When all lay dead on the ground, the blonde murderer climbed on the heap of corpses and played the accordion. His audience sang the Lithuanian anthem as if the orgy of murder had been a national ceremony.&quot; This sounds just as credible as a &quot;two-handed Nazi salute&quot; :) Granted, there were murders taking place, but please, don&#039;t make the accounts ridiculous. I heard this story many times over - along with numerous other “true stories from eyewitnesses”. I understand that you feel unrestrained and apply the approach “set your imagination free – nobody will challenge you, or else – DO YOU DENY THE HOLOCAUST?!“, but really – does your imagination HAVE to be pathological? :) Building your theories on ludicrous claims is bad for business, you know. Yes, so far the sales were good, but for how long is this going to continue? Or feeding false “eyewitness” stories is your way of trying to make people start doubting the WHOLE holocaust thing so that you can have another round of “fighting the holocaust denial”? After all, the income is not that bad, is it? :)
Seriously, turning a tragedy into something reminding a bad joke is NOT a good idea, IMHO – irrespectively of your wish to satisfy whatever inclinations you may have. ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, at least make such &quot;testimonies&quot; believable. &quot;There were shouts of bravo and clapping, mothers raised their children to give them a better view.&quot;, &quot;When all lay dead on the ground, the blonde murderer climbed on the heap of corpses and played the accordion. His audience sang the Lithuanian anthem as if the orgy of murder had been a national ceremony.&quot; This sounds just as credible as a &quot;two-handed Nazi salute&quot; <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Granted, there were murders taking place, but please, don&#039;t make the accounts ridiculous. I heard this story many times over &#8211; along with numerous other “true stories from eyewitnesses”. I understand that you feel unrestrained and apply the approach “set your imagination free – nobody will challenge you, or else – DO YOU DENY THE HOLOCAUST?!“, but really – does your imagination HAVE to be pathological? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Building your theories on ludicrous claims is bad for business, you know. Yes, so far the sales were good, but for how long is this going to continue? Or feeding false “eyewitness” stories is your way of trying to make people start doubting the WHOLE holocaust thing so that you can have another round of “fighting the holocaust denial”? After all, the income is not that bad, is it? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Seriously, turning a tragedy into something reminding a bad joke is NOT a good idea, IMHO – irrespectively of your wish to satisfy whatever inclinations you may have. <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Chris Kline</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97724</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And that last line of yours by the way....you sound just like a gangster. ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that last line of yours by the way&#8230;.you sound just like a gangster. </p>
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		<title>By: Chris Kline</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97722</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 23:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97722</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[About one percent of Lithuania&#039;s pre-war Jewish population joined the Communist party and on the whole suffered the same penalties and worse under Soviet occupation as a bourgeois/merchant and intellectual class. I don&#039;t think you need to try very hard to feel anti-Semitism. And I am not Jewish, my great grandmother was from Dresden and I was baptized in Rome. And I&#039;ve seen three wars from the sharp end, more than once embedded alongside US Special Forces and I hold a letter of commendation from the then former commander of all Allied Special Operations contingents in Afghanistan. I have also faced Russian guns as a war reporter and been threatened by extremists of every possible stripe. I am a lifelong student of war, history and extremism...and its fair to say you are an extremist but you&#039;re in a new disguise, attempting to appear simply a moderate and patriotic fellow, but your sentiments are transparent all the same. You are a revisionist and a xenophobe but thank God you and others like you exist only in a small pond. As a Catholic you might want to read Thomas Merton and rediscover the Christian love for your fellow man you&#039;ve so clearly lost. And there are many wonderful and progressive Lithuanians but they have the likes of you and your ilk to confront before they truly shape a new and more positive reality for their country, which deserves better than the narrow bigotry and xenophobia of fellows like you. Tell you what though I am very proud my family in American uniform fought those you idolize so much, I am just sorry we pushed so hard to get you into NATO, you don&#039;t ascribe to the values of the Atlantic alliance nor the EU and should not be in either group.
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About one percent of Lithuania&#039;s pre-war Jewish population joined the Communist party and on the whole suffered the same penalties and worse under Soviet occupation as a bourgeois/merchant and intellectual class. I don&#039;t think you need to try very hard to feel anti-Semitism. And I am not Jewish, my great grandmother was from Dresden and I was baptized in Rome. And I&#039;ve seen three wars from the sharp end, more than once embedded alongside US Special Forces and I hold a letter of commendation from the then former commander of all Allied Special Operations contingents in Afghanistan. I have also faced Russian guns as a war reporter and been threatened by extremists of every possible stripe. I am a lifelong student of war, history and extremism&#8230;and its fair to say you are an extremist but you&#039;re in a new disguise, attempting to appear simply a moderate and patriotic fellow, but your sentiments are transparent all the same. You are a revisionist and a xenophobe but thank God you and others like you exist only in a small pond. As a Catholic you might want to read Thomas Merton and rediscover the Christian love for your fellow man you&#039;ve so clearly lost. And there are many wonderful and progressive Lithuanians but they have the likes of you and your ilk to confront before they truly shape a new and more positive reality for their country, which deserves better than the narrow bigotry and xenophobia of fellows like you. Tell you what though I am very proud my family in American uniform fought those you idolize so much, I am just sorry we pushed so hard to get you into NATO, you don&#039;t ascribe to the values of the Atlantic alliance nor the EU and should not be in either group.</p>
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		<title>By: Pikc Kazinkavicius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97720</link>
		<dc:creator>Pikc Kazinkavicius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To think that such people call OTHERS neo-Nazis... :) Such bouts of blind ethnic hatred somehow remind me of my online encounter with a Russian neo-Bolshevik (I think they&#039;re called Naz-Bol, or Nazi Bolsheviks :)) - he used very similar wording. A relative of yours? :)
On a serious note: we also have something to say about Jewish participation in the torture, killings, and exiling of Lithuanians during the Soviet occupation - and this happened BEFORE the German invasion or any killings of the Jews. However, we know better than to blame the whole nation for the crimes of some of its representatives - a view apparently not shared here. :) On second thought – maybe those of my compatriots who got involved in the killing of Jews DID share your views? :)
Frankly, if you&#039;re looking for someone who&#039;s actively inciting anti-Semitism - looking in the mirror might be a good idea ;) But then, perhaps it&#039;s nothing personal - just business? :)
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To think that such people call OTHERS neo-Nazis&#8230; <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Such bouts of blind ethnic hatred somehow remind me of my online encounter with a Russian neo-Bolshevik (I think they&#039;re called Naz-Bol, or Nazi Bolsheviks <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) &#8211; he used very similar wording. A relative of yours? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
On a serious note: we also have something to say about Jewish participation in the torture, killings, and exiling of Lithuanians during the Soviet occupation &#8211; and this happened BEFORE the German invasion or any killings of the Jews. However, we know better than to blame the whole nation for the crimes of some of its representatives &#8211; a view apparently not shared here. <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  On second thought – maybe those of my compatriots who got involved in the killing of Jews DID share your views? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Frankly, if you&#039;re looking for someone who&#039;s actively inciting anti-Semitism &#8211; looking in the mirror might be a good idea <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  But then, perhaps it&#039;s nothing personal &#8211; just business? <img src='http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Kline</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97716</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 22:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(Below from Der Spiegel is an eyewitness account of an infamous (well photographed) massacre that took place in Kaunas and was carried out by LAF militia. This is the sort of deed today&#039;s white armbands commemorate. A picture of the murderous accordion player in question follows this testimony.)

&quot;On June 27, 1941, a colonel in the staff of the Germany&#039;s Northern Army Group in the Lithuanian city of Kaunas passed a petrol station surrounded by a crowd of people. There were shouts of bravo and clapping, mothers raised their children to give them a better view. The officer stepped closer and later wrote down what he had seen. &quot;On the concrete courtyard there was blonde man aged around 25, of medium height, who was taking a rest and supporting himself on a wooden club which was as thick as an arm and went up to his chest. At his feet lay 15, 20 people who were dead or dying. Water poured from a hose and washed the blood into a drain.&quot;

The soldier continued: &quot;Just a few paces behind this man stood around 20 men who -- guarded by several armed civilians -- awaited their gruesome execution in silent submission. Beckoned with a curt wave, the next one stepped up silently and was (…) beaten to death with the wooden club, and every blow met with enthusiastic cheers from the audience. When all lay dead on the ground, the blonde murderer climbed on the heap of corpses and played the accordion. His audience sang the Lithuanian anthem as if the orgy of murder had been a national ceremony. &quot;

http://www.trialreview.info/leeb/images/L009%20-%20LEEB%20Dead-dealer%20Lietukis%20Garage%20Kovno.jpg]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Below from Der Spiegel is an eyewitness account of an infamous (well photographed) massacre that took place in Kaunas and was carried out by LAF militia. This is the sort of deed today&#039;s white armbands commemorate. A picture of the murderous accordion player in question follows this testimony.)</p>
<p>&quot;On June 27, 1941, a colonel in the staff of the Germany&#039;s Northern Army Group in the Lithuanian city of Kaunas passed a petrol station surrounded by a crowd of people. There were shouts of bravo and clapping, mothers raised their children to give them a better view. The officer stepped closer and later wrote down what he had seen. &quot;On the concrete courtyard there was blonde man aged around 25, of medium height, who was taking a rest and supporting himself on a wooden club which was as thick as an arm and went up to his chest. At his feet lay 15, 20 people who were dead or dying. Water poured from a hose and washed the blood into a drain.&quot;</p>
<p>The soldier continued: &quot;Just a few paces behind this man stood around 20 men who &#8212; guarded by several armed civilians &#8212; awaited their gruesome execution in silent submission. Beckoned with a curt wave, the next one stepped up silently and was (…) beaten to death with the wooden club, and every blow met with enthusiastic cheers from the audience. When all lay dead on the ground, the blonde murderer climbed on the heap of corpses and played the accordion. His audience sang the Lithuanian anthem as if the orgy of murder had been a national ceremony. &quot;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.trialreview.info/leeb/images/L009%20-%20LEEB%20Dead-dealer%20Lietukis%20Garage%20Kovno.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://www.trialreview.info/leeb/images/L009%20-%20LEEB%20Dead-dealer%20Lietukis%20Garage%20Kovno.jpg</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Kline</title>
		<link>http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/up-close-and-personal-with-some-lithuanian-eo-nazis/#comment-97714</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Kline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2013 20:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/?p=103700#comment-97714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lithuania&#039;s enduring anti-Semitism, anti-Muslim sentiment, anti-Roma prejudice, widespread homophobia and racism towards people of color is not a hidden secret, its a disturbingly open reality. Lithuania also has the dubious distinction of having the highest rate per capita of spousal abuse and domestic violence towards women in the EU.

Utimately however it is difficult to understand where this arrogance and hubris comes from, why the jackboot spirit is so prevalent in Lithuania, why such a virulent form of xenophobia and strident nationalism resonates so much, why Germany came clean but  a nation of 3.5 million cannot. And Germany gave us Goethe, Beethoven, Schopenhauer, indeed  a nearly endless list of greater now global cultural patrimony. By contrast  in terms of cultural endeavor Lithuania is a provincial backwater, in literature, film, theater, philosophy, music, the plastic arts...as an engine of creativity, the country is not remotely distinguished in its larger contribution to  European high culture, of cultural achievement that transcends navel gazing, parochialism to become universal, unless the documented record of Lithuanian emigres in the Scotland Yard police  archives as the dominant nationality in the emigre population with the highest incidence of criminal activity in the UK, is a mark of distinction or perhaps the teenage boy who won Lithuania&#039;s Got Talent contest three years ago by tapping a tune on his teeth is also a mark of pride. But of course arguably it is THE world leader in Holocaust revisionism and official tolerance, even encouragement of Neo-Nazi belief, with the exception of perhaps Iran&#039;s President Ahmadinejad.

The two quotes by leading dissident Lithuanian thinkers offer more food for thought in their comprehensive logic:

&quot;It will be impossible for Lithuania to come to terms with its history... until the country&#039;s elite admits that the provisional government of Lithuania in 1941 collaborated with the Nazis and acted against Lithuanian citizens. Unfortunately, the provisional government... is praised up to the skies in Lithuania...It is a disgrace.&quot;

-Leonidas Donskis

&quot; EU membership appears to have had done little to consolidate democracy and the rule of law in this formerly communist country, and it is hard to grasp how Lithuania will assume the EU Presidency next year. Arbitrary mob rule, executive interference with the judicial process, the corruption of government institutions and political parties all make for an extremely worrying spectacle.&quot;

-Violeta Davoliute 

That the Lithuanian Defense Ministry has also taken steps to lionize the LAF and refused any punitive measures against serving soldiers clearly exposed as having Neo-Nazi linkages, should come as no surprise. In this regard, as an American whose family includes many who fought both Fascism and Communism under arms, I am ashamed the United States took such pains to bring the all three Baltic countries into the NATO fold, where all three suffer from a similar variety of the toxic world view discussed here.  For those Lithuanian ultra-nationalists who seek to sever ties from the EU, in many respects it would be a positive step for the rest of the Union.

Grand Duke Vytautas, the heroic 15th century leader, when as a Ducal state Lithuania formed one of the great European empires of its age, had defeated the Teutonic invaders leading a combined army of Lithuanians, Poles, (Sufi Muslim) Tatars, Ruthenians (modern day Russians, Slovaks, Belarusians and Ukranians, as well as Czech and Moldovan mercenaries, one of the first great multicultural/multinational armies in military history. After his victory, the Grand Duke far ahead of his time, granted sanctuary to the Jews of Eastern Europe who wished to seek his protection and made it a legal offense not to come to the aid of persecuted minority population members. It was because of him, that until the horrors of 1941 were unleashed by Ambrazevičius-Brazaitis, Lithuania had a vibrant multicultural society. It is ironic how the extremists have hijacked the Grand Duke in the present day, like the National Front in France has Joan of Arc, but one doubts he would embrace the likes of the National Youth League were he here now. The Grand Duke was a visionary not a redneck. Interesting too how in 1941 the LAF issued pamphlets that revoked the sanctuary granted by the Grand Duke and had to take pains to do so by name.

Lithuania is a wonderful case study of multiple pathologies we want to believe have been largely eradicated but Lithuania in its most detestable extremes poses an active and clear threat to not only European but Western civilization, precisely because it is a bridgehead for such hateful, Medieval and divisive ideologies, that merit being confronted. That Lithuania will actually assume temporary leadership of the EU, staggers the brain.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lithuania&#039;s enduring anti-Semitism, anti-Muslim sentiment, anti-Roma prejudice, widespread homophobia and racism towards people of color is not a hidden secret, its a disturbingly open reality. Lithuania also has the dubious distinction of having the highest rate per capita of spousal abuse and domestic violence towards women in the EU.</p>
<p>Utimately however it is difficult to understand where this arrogance and hubris comes from, why the jackboot spirit is so prevalent in Lithuania, why such a virulent form of xenophobia and strident nationalism resonates so much, why Germany came clean but  a nation of 3.5 million cannot. And Germany gave us Goethe, Beethoven, Schopenhauer, indeed  a nearly endless list of greater now global cultural patrimony. By contrast  in terms of cultural endeavor Lithuania is a provincial backwater, in literature, film, theater, philosophy, music, the plastic arts&#8230;as an engine of creativity, the country is not remotely distinguished in its larger contribution to  European high culture, of cultural achievement that transcends navel gazing, parochialism to become universal, unless the documented record of Lithuanian emigres in the Scotland Yard police  archives as the dominant nationality in the emigre population with the highest incidence of criminal activity in the UK, is a mark of distinction or perhaps the teenage boy who won Lithuania&#039;s Got Talent contest three years ago by tapping a tune on his teeth is also a mark of pride. But of course arguably it is THE world leader in Holocaust revisionism and official tolerance, even encouragement of Neo-Nazi belief, with the exception of perhaps Iran&#039;s President Ahmadinejad.</p>
<p>The two quotes by leading dissident Lithuanian thinkers offer more food for thought in their comprehensive logic:</p>
<p>&quot;It will be impossible for Lithuania to come to terms with its history&#8230; until the country&#039;s elite admits that the provisional government of Lithuania in 1941 collaborated with the Nazis and acted against Lithuanian citizens. Unfortunately, the provisional government&#8230; is praised up to the skies in Lithuania&#8230;It is a disgrace.&quot;</p>
<p>-Leonidas Donskis</p>
<p>&quot; EU membership appears to have had done little to consolidate democracy and the rule of law in this formerly communist country, and it is hard to grasp how Lithuania will assume the EU Presidency next year. Arbitrary mob rule, executive interference with the judicial process, the corruption of government institutions and political parties all make for an extremely worrying spectacle.&quot;</p>
<p>-Violeta Davoliute </p>
<p>That the Lithuanian Defense Ministry has also taken steps to lionize the LAF and refused any punitive measures against serving soldiers clearly exposed as having Neo-Nazi linkages, should come as no surprise. In this regard, as an American whose family includes many who fought both Fascism and Communism under arms, I am ashamed the United States took such pains to bring the all three Baltic countries into the NATO fold, where all three suffer from a similar variety of the toxic world view discussed here.  For those Lithuanian ultra-nationalists who seek to sever ties from the EU, in many respects it would be a positive step for the rest of the Union.</p>
<p>Grand Duke Vytautas, the heroic 15th century leader, when as a Ducal state Lithuania formed one of the great European empires of its age, had defeated the Teutonic invaders leading a combined army of Lithuanians, Poles, (Sufi Muslim) Tatars, Ruthenians (modern day Russians, Slovaks, Belarusians and Ukranians, as well as Czech and Moldovan mercenaries, one of the first great multicultural/multinational armies in military history. After his victory, the Grand Duke far ahead of his time, granted sanctuary to the Jews of Eastern Europe who wished to seek his protection and made it a legal offense not to come to the aid of persecuted minority population members. It was because of him, that until the horrors of 1941 were unleashed by Ambrazevičius-Brazaitis, Lithuania had a vibrant multicultural society. It is ironic how the extremists have hijacked the Grand Duke in the present day, like the National Front in France has Joan of Arc, but one doubts he would embrace the likes of the National Youth League were he here now. The Grand Duke was a visionary not a redneck. Interesting too how in 1941 the LAF issued pamphlets that revoked the sanctuary granted by the Grand Duke and had to take pains to do so by name.</p>
<p>Lithuania is a wonderful case study of multiple pathologies we want to believe have been largely eradicated but Lithuania in its most detestable extremes poses an active and clear threat to not only European but Western civilization, precisely because it is a bridgehead for such hateful, Medieval and divisive ideologies, that merit being confronted. That Lithuania will actually assume temporary leadership of the EU, staggers the brain.</p>
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