Comments on: We needed substance, we got slogans

By: Finally Free

Finally Free — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:16:59 +0000

R' Melchior (the former Chief Rabbi of Norway, and son of the Chief Rabbi of Denmark) may well be thinking of the Scandinavian countries (and others in Western Europe). They loved Israel there when it was a socialist country. After Israel had the temerity to largely turn its back on socialism, the left clerisy that dominates the discourse there turned on Israel like only a spurned lover can.
Afterward, a Muslim immigrant population that quickly turned inro mascots of the left clerisy (a.k.a. the New Class) did the rest.
I once had the pleasure of meeting R' Melchior and this remarkable man is, alas, still very much an unreconstructed Scandinavian socialist politically speaking. What he (and many liberals who point to Scandinavia) forget is that these systems only worked, after a fashion, as long as you had a relatively homogenous population with a very high level of social control and identification with the community.

By: Finally Free

Finally Free — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 16:16:59 +0000

By: Meir Moses

Meir Moses — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:54:48 +0000

'Socialism' (but far more accurately Social Democracy) got Israel through it's early years. Social Democracy built Israel. This is a fact. In the 40's 50s, 60s and 70s, Jews sent their children to Kibbutzim and didn't bitch about socialism. They knew and saw these institutions as purely Israeli. Kibbutzim sent their children to the frontline disproportionately. We owe a lot to these people. Indeed what you might call 'Socialism' generated and informed the pioneer/settler enterprise. I doubt laissez-faire market capitalism would have – let alone the religious dynamic. When the public tired of it, it voted for a shift to more liberal economies and social dynamics. There are today no pure Socialist parties that have a shot at real power in Israel. The reality is that socially and economically Labour and Likud are not far apart. Both aim to maintain socialized institutions as the people won't tolerate their dismantling.

By: Meir Moses

Meir Moses — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 20:54:48 +0000

By: Nachum Lamm

Nachum Lamm — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:50:23 +0000

I think you have to read between the lines there- he wants Israel to be openly loved by some very specific countries without acknowledging that, first, it would have to do some pretty self-destructive things to do so, and, second, that simple, unsolvable hatred is behind much of the, well, hatred.

By: Adam Burman

Adam Burman — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:32:37 +0000

me No thanks.

History has proven socialism a very bad path to take.

By: Adam Burman

Adam Burman — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:32:37 +0000

me No thanks.

History has proven socialism a very bad path to take.

By: Andrew Paul Stuart Hamilton

Andrew Paul Stuart Hamilton — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 14:24:14 +0000

Far from being pressing questions these statements are not even true.
1. Israel is NOT increasingly isolated. Its increasing connected and crucial to world prosperity.
2. The poverty figures are misleading. Most are Haredi who prefer to be rich in Torah than financially. The children are not starving, indeed they are are one of the fastest growing populations in the world.
3. Making Aliyah and being Israeli IS a clearly defined Jewish identity. Its a national Jewish identity.

By: Nachum Lamm

Nachum Lamm — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 13:47:58 +0000

To people like Melchior, first, what really counts is that the nations of Western Europe declare their love for Israel. They're a bit too elitist for Azerbaijan, South Sudan, South Korea and certainly anything undemocratic.

Second, they are either naively or willingly (because it is, indeed, something very troublesome to consider) ignorant of the fact that it is simple anti-Semitism, irrational or "rational" (in that it is a simple reaction to Jewish and Israeli exceptionalism) that motivates world hatred. That, and fear of the Muslim and Arab world. I don't see how any candidate can change this- which is, of course, the troublesome factor.

By: Dan Labina

Dan Labina — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 10:47:48 +0000

I just read a funny piece about the Israeli elections on the Huffington Post. It's called Israeli Politics for Dummies and it's a comic guide to the elections.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omri-marcus/israeli-politics-for-dummies_b_2395115.html?utm_hp_ref=fb&src=sp&comm_ref=false#sb=467466,b=facebook

By: Meir Moses

Meir Moses — Mon, 21 Jan 2013 06:57:40 +0000

Yachimovich is looking more and more like at least a realistic, balanced option, albeit flawed for sure.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:29:49 +0000

What's wrong with Yacimovich, who isn't mentioned by Rabbi Melchior? You may as well go out and cast your vote for her.

By: אבי קסנר

אבי קסנר — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:20:10 +0000

That doesn't help. That just proves my point.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:18:28 +0000

Mybe this can help: "Israel is the whore of the Middle East: everybody has relations with her,but nobody is willing to say so" Meir Dagan, October 2012. I would add "Not only of the Middle East". Nissim Lucerna, Santiago de Chile.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:15:24 +0000

"YES WE CAN'T!" Nissim Lucerna, Santuago de Chile.