Bibi on Ben Gvir and Smotrich: ‘I made a mistake’

Seventeen months ago, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told a major American Jewish leader that his appointment of Itamar Ben Gvir as national security minister and Bezalel Smotrich as finance minister was “a mistake,” and added, “I’ll fix it.”

Netanyahu has never stated publicly that bringing the two far-right ministers into his coalition was a mistake. On the contrary, he has defended his decision against those who say that the policies and statements of the two ministers – primarily, their call for Israel to continue the war, seize permanent control of Gaza for resettlement, and annex the West Bank – has played a major role in Israel’s isolation in the international community and its image as a racist and genocidal state.

The conversation took place in July 2023, in Jerusalem, between Netanyahu and Abraham Foxman, national director emeritus of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL), who led the organization from 1987 to 2015.

Their discussion came to light this past week with the publication of “A Shattered World: Jews and Israel After October 7,” a book of essays published by Purdue University Press that addresses the impact of the war on the Jewish future. It includes a Q and A transcript of an interview with Foxman, conducted last spring by Gilbert N. Kahn, a professor of political science at Kean University and co-editor of the book. Michael Berenbaum, a noted Holocaust scholar, is the book’s other co-author. (I contributed a chapter on mainstream media coverage of the war.)

Foxman, arguably the American Jewish community’s leading defender of Israel during his long career, is often cited for his directness and authenticity. In the book, he described having an hour-and-a-half conversation in the prime minister’s office that Netanyahu initiated, encouraging his guest, whom he had known well for many years, to “be straight” with him.

“I said to him, ‘Why did you have to give Smotrich and Ben Gvir [the positions] you gave them?’” Foxman related. “You could have given them something else. He [Netanyahu] says, ‘I made a mistake. That’s it. … And Abe, I’ll fix it. You’ll see.’

“I said to him, ‘Bibi, I have known you for a long time. You’re not a racist. Now you’re a racist. Because now you embrace two racists in your government. You don’t challenge them. You don’t criticize them.’ … He said, ‘Abe, I’ll fix it. The argument is over. I made a mistake.’”

In a phone interview with Foxman last week, he confirmed the accuracy of the transcript and added that Ron Dermer, the former Israeli ambassador to the US who recently stepped down as minister of strategic affairs and has long been Netanyahu’s closest confidant, was also in the room for part of the 2023 conversation.

The Prime Minister’s Office and Dermer did not respond to requests for a response.

It is difficult to overestimate the significance of the presence of Ben Gvir and Smotrich in the Netanyahu coalition. Though together they make up only nine of the Knesset’s 120 seats, they hold the balance of power, as the prime minister well knows, and he could lose his post, and possibly face a prison term, if they pull out.

“If Smotrich and Ben Gvir have powers beyond their number in the government,” Gershon Gorenberg observed in The Atlantic last spring, “they are monsters Netanyahu has helped create.”

The two ministers differ in certain ways, but both live in the West Bank and call for settlement expansion and annexation there. They also assert that Israel should be governed by Jewish law, be free of Arab citizens, continue the war until Hamas is completely destroyed, and renew the Jewish settlement of Gaza.

Smotrich, as finance minister, has withheld tax revenues that are set aside for the Palestinian Authority, which he opposes, and describes himself as “a proud homophobe.” Ben Gvir is a devotee of the late Rabbi Meir Kahane, a violent extremist who promoted the expulsion of Arabs from Israel. The national security minister has dramatically increased the distribution of handguns to Jews in the West Bank during his tenure, and ignored or defended the increasing number of violent acts committed against Palestinian residents by Jews in the area.

Western media tends to quote the extremist anti-ceasefire, anti-Arab, anti-LGBTQ+ views of Ben Gvir and Smotrich as emblematic of the government, perceived around the world as a pariah state. With it all, Netanyahu often has given in to their demands – like resisting a ceasefire for months and cutting off food and essential aid to Gaza for months – to ensure his government stays in power.

Looking ahead, it seems clear Netanyahu will seek to remain in office when national elections, scheduled for no later than October 27, 2026, are held. Despite not acknowledging responsibility as head of state for the tragic events of October 7, few are counting him out. A case can be made that Netanyahu would like to shed Ben Gvir and Smotritch and the Haredi parties next election campaign and look to political allies in the center-right and center. However, several of the key potential partners, including former defense minister Benny Gantz, former deputy prime minister Avigdor Liberman, and prime-minister-for a-year Naftali Bennett (2021-2022), share a deep distrust of Netanyahu, having worked closely with him, and may well reject offers to join him.

For now, the prime minister is trying mightily to balance his need to satisfy President Trump by not escalating the unofficial war in Gaza while keeping Ben Gvir and Smotrich assured that he will not allow Hamas to remain in power.

As for the prime minister’s pledge almost a year and a half ago to “fix” the Ben Gvir/ Smotrich problem, Abe Foxman’s response, at the end of his interview with Gilbert Kahn, was brief but pointed.

“I am waiting,” he said.