Local Jewish Leader Grilled on Norwegian TV

It’s hard to explain what it is like to be Jewish in Norway today. Every Jew has a different experience, but most of us just try to keep our heads down and get on with life. This is in a country where life, in general, is pretty calm. It’s an attitude familiar to many diaspora Jews, but Norway is a bit of an extreme for a few reasons.

First, there are very few Jews in Norway, between 1,000 to 2,000, so we have neither the resources nor the numbers to influence in any way. Second, debate and free speech are central values in a country that prides itself on its liberalism. Third, Norway is an extremely homogenous country, which is reflected in the media, especially in coverage related to Israel. The media, not being in English or another international language, undergoes zero international scrutiny; nobody internationally notices what the Norwegian-speaking media says. Fourth, people, in general, do not understand antisemitism. Although, like all other countries, there are people with prejudices against Jews—28% think Jews are more loyal to Israel than to Norway and 50% think Israel treats Palestinians as badly as Jews were treated in World War 2, antisemitic views are still low compared to much of the world—there are not many who “hate Jews.” Mix these all together, and you end up where we are today: a country where the threshold of what is considered antisemitism is extremely high. “Art” with a swastika-covered Netanyahu or a keffiyeh on Anne Frank is considered an interesting topic for debate. Articles in national papers condemning Jewish leaders for not “speaking out” on Gaza are celebrated. Jewish voices in the media are absent; the few who tried have largely given up. Needless to say, mainstream Israeli voices and perspectives are also largely absent, though you will see far-left and occasionally far-right Israeli perspectives more regularly.

Before our Easter/Pesach break, we had an excellent example of where things are right now. An incident that would be unthinkable in other countries but that raised few eyebrows in Norway, and most of those for the wrong reasons.

Introducing Ervin Kohn. He is a former chairperson and, for want of a better translation, former honorary president of the Jewish community of Oslo.

He has been in the media, mostly print media and radio, regularly over the years, and is reasonably active on social media. Apart from his volunteering in the Jewish community, he has been an active anti-racism campaigner.

Otherwise, I think it would be fair to describe Ervin as a pretty regular 69-year-old pensioner, busy grandfather, and synagogue regular. His parents were Holocaust survivors from Sighet who moved to Norway when he was 5.

A few weeks ago, on the 9th of April, Ervin appeared on a national TV interview with journalist Yama Wolasmal. Yama is a prize-winning, well-respected journalist and Middle East correspondent who has been noticed by some internationally for his tough interviews with Israeli spokesperson David Mencer and more recently UN Special Rapporteur for Palestine Francesca Albanese, clips of both of which reached a more global audience through social media. The interview of Ervin was done under the program title “Yama Utfordrer,” Yama Challenges… in English.

The description on the program page is “Yama Wolasmal meets powerful individuals face to face. He confronts them with decisions that have had a significant impact on millions of people.”

If you are Jewish, you have likely already spotted problem number one. Think of an antisemitic stereotype; Jews and power will come near the top of the list. Ervin has no position of power apart from Facebook and Twitter accounts with a, not particularly impressive, combined total of 8,000 followers, split about 50/50 between the platforms. The “Yama Utfordrer” interview series started with NATO Head Jens Stoltenberg, moved over to controversial UN Special Rapporteur for Palestine, Francesca Albanese, next Hamas leader Basem Naim, and then Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre (the last interview with a focus on Trump). It doesn’t take a forensic detective to spot the odd one out. The only special “power” Ervin has is that he is probably the only mainstream Norwegian Jew who continues to put themselves out there publicly; everyone else is either worn out, has given up, or doesn’t feel safe to share their opinions in public and have to deal with the hate that flows back in return.

Screenshot of the website for the TV series with the program description and other guests

Let’s look a bit deeper into the program. The description of the episode was “Yama Challenges Ervin on Jew Hatred.” When the program was announced, there was a little excitement amongst Norwegian Jews that Norwegian state broadcaster NRK was going to have a conversation about antisemitism with someone who knew about it. There was also some skepticism on why Ervin needed challenging on it rather than NRK or Norwegian society and general skepticism on what NRK would present. The broadcaster is generally not trusted by Norwegian Jews and has made very little effort to present or represent our opinions and issues over the last couple of years.

What we ended up with was more a modern-day version of a historical Disputation (where Jewish scholars in the Middle Ages had to defend their religion against heresy against the church) or, closer to the modern day, a Soviet Show trial. In a 29-minute interview, cut from a 90-minute conversation, there were 4 or 5 minutes on antisemitism in Norway with no emotion or delving into the issues. The rest covered Ervin’s views on Israel, including 4 to 5 minutes on what the interview called “The heated antisemitism debate,” mostly on whether Israel was behaving like Nazis, if genocide was a valid term to use, and if Amnesty International was antisemitic. Questions were heated, tough, and sometimes personal, of the type that you would expect to be handed to a prime minister rather than an ex-layman of a religious community.

From the perspective of mainstream Norwegian Jews, Ervin did a great job. He stayed calm and answered the questions he was given as best he could. As a representative Jew, despite Ervin and the interviewer saying clearly at the start that he was only representing himself, he had to be careful of what he said, and there was much he could not say because, like in the disputations and show trials, it’s not always safe to say what you mean. Ervin agreed to be interviewed because if he hadn’t, they may have asked someone else. Unlike in previous history, Ervin and Norway’s Jews did not have to worry about physical retribution on the Jewish community; police with machine guns protect our buildings and gatherings 24/7, but a wrong word or sentence could have had serious repercussions in the media. That is something we all fear even if it only affects our psychological well-being.

So how did the public react? The answer is not a lot. The small group of philosemitic or pro-Israel right-wing bloggers were extremely critical of the interview, but their views generally didn’t reach the mainstream media. Two Christian newspapers ran critical articles, but criticism was light. Norwegian online newspaper Subject (self-described as Liberal but described by many as to the right of the mainstream) ran a few articles, including one by Ervin on the right of Jews to define antisemitism. Mainstream broadsheet Aftenposten ran an opinion piece by a pro-Palestinian “intellectual” trying to explain that Ervin lives in a bubble of people that agree with him and that we should respect this. If only he knew what Jewish communities were really like! Amnesty International responded with a social media campaign and got some press coverage over Ervin’s criticism of them. They didn’t take the criticism kindly, and their campaign led with “Documenting genocide is not antisemitism,” with some follow-up letters by activists in various local and national papers.

Amnesty writes “Ervin Kohn claims on NRK Urix that Amnesty acts antisemitically when we document possible war crimes and genocide in Gaza” – The post has been shared 200 times

The whole pretext of the interview, that a Jew is interviewed on prime-time TV, as a Jew, and grilled on their views on Israel wasn’t really an issue.

Why did NRK choose to do this? I don’t know, but I have a few theories. Maybe they were trying to balance the interview series or their general coverage with a more pro-Israel voice? Maybe they were genuinely trying to give a Jewish perspective that they thought they were missing? Maybe NRK’s journalists live in a bubble of liberal activists who have been highly critical of Ervin’s social media posts that seldom condemn Israel and often promote Israeli perspectives or positive angles on Israel. I have spoken to Palestine activists who really wanted to speak to Ervin as they couldn’t understand how an anti-racism campaigner could have these opinions.

Overall, the episode and the lack of reaction is a good snapshot of the problems the Jewish community has today.

As a last word, after the program, I searched online on X/Twitter and other social media for reactions to the interview. The first posts I found, hot off the press, were from far-right accounts promoting the antisemitic conspiracy that Jews and Ervin are responsible for mass immigration into Europe. The next were openly antisemitic posts and tropes about Ervin’s views on Israel from people on the far left. Trolls maybe, but Ervin’s social media accounts have been plagued by such comments over the last couple of years, and he has been the victim of extremist abuse and threats. It seems strange that celebrated journalist Yama Wolasmal didn’t care to do a search on social media to see the kind of abuse that Ervin is subjected to on a regular basis. As long as the media only gives lip service to such abuse, it will only continue.

If you want to watch the interview yourself, you can see it here with subtitles in English or Hebrew. If you want to help, then please get in touch. We need support from outside of Norway to help try and improve the culture of debate we have here. Change from the inside doesn’t seem like it will happen anytime soon.

Full interview below with captions in English, Hebrew or Norwegian