Florence Dupont Interview | Alex Gilbert #258 | Alexandre Gilbert

Florence Dupont is a French Latinist, Hellenist, and academic. She published: Histoire littéraire de Rome. De Romulus à Ovide, une culture de la traduction, in 2022 (éditions Armand Colin).

Thomas Jolly, who directed Starmania and the Paris 2024 Olympic ceremonies, speaks highly of you. You mentioned that his approach avoids traditional theater representation, embracing a science fiction-like, immersive vision. What did you think of the Olympic ceremonies he directed ?

Florence Dupont: I obviously found it brilliant, better than Starmania i found too loud and confusingf. And on top of that, he was associated with Patrick Boucheron, who is a friend. No, but I mean, there’s no problem—I found it truly incredible. Politically, it was already pushing boundaries, which I could only appreciate. But even aesthetically, I admire his ability to create images that are not mere representations. He creates images, as he had done in his staging of Thyestes by Seneca in Avignon, which aligns well with the spirit of Roman theater. I also think of Greek theater, but I know I risk being executed for saying that.

The Unique Theatrical Style of Thomas Jolly

Florence Dupont: In reality, for him, it’s not about representing something or referencing external elements to the theater. The theater functions on its own, according to its own code. He creates monsters; he creates images with elements that are not extratheatrical. That’s his style, his signature. It’s an approach that blends contemporary art, popular practices, and the theater of Seneca. I find this approach perfectly interesting. It has its roots in the work of directors like Tadeusz Kantor. I loved Bertolt Brecht’s theater, but what Thomas Jolly does is not a theater of representation, like that of Jean Genet. Contrary to what people think, Genet’s theater is not political; for example, The Screens is not at all a political play. It plays more on theatricality than on narrative.

The Fusion of Contemporary Art and Senecan Theater

Florence Dupont: Here, we are very far from the Nouveau roman, which sought to transform narrative forms; it’s more about the creation of images. This kind of theater allows for the creation of things that cannot be made anywhere else and that disappear once the performance is over. During a show hosted by Adèle Van Reeth on France Culture, which I participated in before being removed from her guest list, I pointed out that this kind of theater is real spectacle—theater as we can love it.

The Fundamental Role of Music in Theater

Florence Dupont: Of course, there are other forms of theater, like musical theater. Removing music from theater is already a disaster. Fundamentally, theater is musical. The idea of theater without music was invented in the 16th century. After the Renaissance, people wanted to be the heirs of a lost tradition, and this tradition was reconstructed solely from texts.

The Ephemeral Nature of Theatrical Spectacle

Florence Dupont: But these texts were neither in Rome nor Greece at the center of the theater at that time. There was no staging of texts; the texts served to operate rituals and spectacles. In the Renaissance, this system was reversed, which would take too long to explain here. Everything was reinvented based on what was done in colleges, which was allegorical theater, with heavy consequences.

Thomas Jolly’s Adaptation of Seneca’s Thyestes

Florence Dupont: One day, Thomas Jolly came to my house because he wanted to adapt Thyestes, the play by Seneca, and I was the only one who had worked on his theater, which has nothing to do with his philosophy or the Consolations. There isn’t a word of consolation in his theater. It’s interesting to reflect on the question of mourning, sometimes associated with suicide, but that’s part of a recurring debate between Cynics and Stoics.

The Philosophical and Political Dimensions of Seneca’s Theater

Florence Dupont: Seneca committed suicide, like many senators of his time. He had even planned to assassinate Nero and take his place. We understand that Nero was not very popular. Seneca was not an intellectual punished by an evil tyrant; he was the richest man in Rome, who had organized a conspiracy to put himself on the throne. In the end, suicide was for him a proof of freedom, which is no longer a philosophical question today, but rather a medical one.

The Realism and Emotional Depth of Roman Theater

Florence Dupont: In Roman theater, it’s about living with events. There is no Roman theater that is not rooted in real life. We don’t just represent an angry character; we share the character’s anger within a general anger that manifests on stage.