Patricia Tourancheau Interview | Alex Gilbert #262

How did you meet Elie Wajeman, and how did you decide to make this series?
Patricia Tourancheau: Actually, it was the production team, specifically the producer Elodie Polo-Ackermann, who found Elie Wajeman. The project was already in motion. I had wanted to make a series about this case because the story is incredible, quite unique in France, with 35 years of searching for this man, who turned out to be a former gendarme in the Republican Guard who later became a motorcycle police officer. So, from the moment François Vérove was identified, I spoke to Elodie Polo-Ackermann, pitched the story to her—she didn’t know it—and suggested she propose it to a serious broadcaster. I think Netflix wasn’t very interested because in the US, they have plenty of serial killers who are former law enforcement officers. But France 2 immediately got hooked. We had a first production meeting with a co-writer, who wasn’t Elie at the time. That’s when I suggested the idea of a narrative film that would serve as a posthumous psychiatric evaluation of François Vérove by the expert Daniel Zagury. I expressed my frustration—and some of the victims’ families were even more frustrated than me—that Vérove cowardly took his own life, thus avoiding a trial. I regretted that there wouldn’t be any psychiatric or psychological expertise on François Vérove to try to decode him.

Daniel Zagury says that there is only one case like François Vérove’s. In the history of serial killers, no one has ever just “stopped” like he did. Doesn’t this challenge the very notion of a serial killer? How do you categorize such a profile?
Patricia Tourancheau: I don’t think there’s a specific term for it. He’s simply a serial killer who stopped killing. There may be others we haven’t seen. The definition of a serial killer, according to the FBI’s standards—adopted by France, Europe, and other countries—is someone who commits at least three murders spaced out over time with different victims. So, by definition, he is a serial killer. But whether it’s three victims or thirty, it doesn’t change the fact that he stopped. Zagury himself said that in France, he has never seen anything like this. He’s never seen someone so split, so integrated into society—except perhaps Pierre Chanal, though Chanal’s personal life wasn’t as orderly and conventional as François Vérove’s. Even police officers like Frédéric Péchenard were shocked but eventually came to understand it. For them, and for most officers, a serial killer is someone who cannot stop; the impulse is stronger than anything else. As long as the police don’t catch him, he’ll keep going. But François Vérove, the “Grêlé,” changes that notion a bit. I believe there are two reasons why he was able to stop his crimes starting in 1997, not 1994. After Ingrid, there were likely other crimes or assaults that remain unknown, which the justice system is still investigating, trying to fill the gap between 1994 and 1997. In his posthumous letter, Vérove admitted to stopping in 1997, meaning there are missing assaults or crimes.

For me, there are two main reasons. One is the psychotherapy he underwent at the medical-psychological center in Mitry-Mory starting in 1997, along with his suicide attempt. Even though he didn’t reveal his crimes to his therapist, he managed to resolve certain issues with his father. That’s the first reason. The second, in my opinion, is that he wasn’t an investigator, but he was aware of the advances in DNA technology in France starting around 1996-1997. Although there were no databases yet, judges were asking molecular biology labs to analyze DNA from semen, blood, etc., and compare it on a case-by-case basis to suspects. Vérove knew this. I think this is another reason why he stopped. Moreover, it’s no coincidence that he requested a transfer to the Bouches-du-Rhône on April 1, 2001, distancing himself from Paris and the Île-de-France, where he committed all his crimes. He wanted to advance his rank and also put physical distance between himself and his past as a predator, prowling the streets during lunch breaks, and so on.

The fact that he was part of the Alliance network and close to its director, Denis Jacob—did that strike you?
Patricia Tourancheau: Not particularly, no. He deceived everyone. Denis Jacob, whom I know, spoke about the “Grêlé” at the time, but it came as a massive shock to him. But it wasn’t much of a surprise for me. Once the project was launched and the producer introduced me to Elie Wajeman, who already had a written dossier and a chosen angle, I was impressed by two of his films, Médecin de Nuit and Les Anarchistes. We immediately connected. He was very interested in the story, especially because it took place in Paris, a city he loves to film. I’m really happy with the direction he took. We worked closely together on the voice-over texts for Zagury, which we wrote together, based on interviews with Zagury. We submitted all the biographical elements of Vérove and the crime scenes to him, and he provided insights, which we then rewrote to make the narrative accessible without being overly technical, to elevate the discussion.

Have you known Daniel Zagury for a long time ?
Patricia Tourancheau: Yes, since the mid-90s, I’d say. I’ve seen him at all the major Assize Court trials of serial killers, as well as trials for more “ordinary” criminals, if I may say so. I saw him at the trials of Guy Georges, Patrice Alègre, and Michel Fourniret. I interviewed him for a summer series in Libération about serial killers. He had already impressed me back then with his expertise. You should read one of his psychiatric reports—outside of his courtroom testimony—it’s 50 pages long, meticulously detailed, and you learn a lot from it. He explains things in a very vivid way. When he describes what serial killers might feel, based on interviews with several of them, it’s something unimaginable to us. At the Patrice Alègre trial, for example, he said that when the killer is in the act, he feels omnipotent, above the world.

Serial killers are hyper-narcissistic. Guy Georges compares himself to a tiger. Vérove saw himself as the king of Paris and had these cinematic references, being called Fernandel, doing a “Top Gun” training, watching Cannibal Holocaust and appearing on Nagui’s show. Did Mindhunter inspire you ?
Patricia Tourancheau: Yes, of course. Zagury isn’t a profiler or a psycho-criminologist; he’s a psychiatrist. But much like Mindhunter, where the new profilers at the FBI’s Quantico unit try to decode these killers to prevent future crimes—though that’s not easy—they do manage to understand how these people operate by interviewing killers like Ed Kemper. This allows them to investigate serial crimes with psychological tools. So yes, there’s a Mindhunter aspect to it. But I’m more grounded than Elie, who is a filmmaker. Aside from the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde reference, which I find fitting to illustrate the duality of the character, I didn’t draw much from Mindhunter. We created something unique. Zagury himself distances himself from FBI profilers, who, in his view, went too far at times.

It’s the case of Carine Hutsebaut.