How Sweet is the Light that Shines in the Darkness

At a wonderful wedding that I was privileged to attend this week, a friend of mine turned to me – an officer in the IDF’s Combat Engineering Corps, who has spent much of this year destroying the tunnels in Gaza – and asked, “I see you’re involved in the Rivon Harevii (‘The Fourth Quarter’). Do you really think things can change? Do you have hope?”

They say it’s a Jewish trait to respond to a question with another question. So, in answer to some of the honest and piercing questions my friend raised, I want to add two more that have been rattling around in my heart:

How will the present shape us?

And what will we choose to take with us, when we are able to move ahead?

The late Staff Sgt. Shachar Fridman, of blessed memory, a 21-year-old paratrooper who fell in battle in Gaza last November, left behind many writings – including an ethical will. In it, he instructs us: “Be good people in your own way. Don’t let society dictate what it is that makes you into good people. Just try as hard as you can.”

In his spirit, and in an attempt to convey the spirit and mission of Rivon Harevii – a grassroots movement that aims (in my own words) to take the poison out of Israel’s public discourse – I am sharing here my translation of part of an in-depth interview with the Rivon’s Co-Founder and Chairperson, Dr. Yoav Heller.

The full Hebrew text, written by Hila Weissberg, was published earlier this year in Globes. Any mistakes made in the translation are my own.

Dr. Yoav Heller, Chairperson, at a Rivon Harevii seminar (Credit: Rivon Harevii)

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“There’s some confusion about the ethics of this. If Hamas hadn’t been stopped, they would have killed 10 million.”

Translated excerpt from an interview conducted by Hila Weissberg | Hatsolelet, Globes

What is the Rivon Harevii movement?

“It’s a social movement that aims to change the political arena. We identified that the State of Israel is undergoing a process of degenerating into a tribal society. We understood that the moment this process reaches its natural conclusion, there will be “predators” on the outside who will take advantage of the situation. In the history of the Jewish people, we have experienced sovereignty twice: In the era of the Kingdom of David and Solomon, and in the era of the Hasmoneans. During both periods, we enjoyed a period of prosperity which was followed by collapse. The collapse happened around the 75^th year of our sovereignty.

“Therefore, when Ben-Gurion was asked, in his time, ‘Are you pleased that we have a State?’ he answered, ‘No. Speak to me about it in its 75^th year.’ And that’s where the name of the movement comes from – working to ensure that the State continues to exist past its 75^th year, i.e., through its fourth 25-year period.”

It seems that our enemies did indeed identify a weak point in society, when they attacked on October 7.

“That’s why this is not just some type of feel-good game where we come and hug each other. Moreover, achieving unity is not only a matter of adopting a different type of dialogue. It is not only a matter of what language you use. You also need to create policies that encourage unity. I can bring one example from the educational system: Israel has four educational systems [secular, religious, Arab, and Haredi – H.W.]. This division serves as a training ground for soldiers in a future war – a civil war, i.e., not a war against our enemies.

“When I say this at parlor meetings, everyone gets mad at me. Nonetheless, I insist: In our subconscious, we are educating toward separatism. You can’t educate toward separatism without also educating toward hatred of the other. What’s the solution? The systems can still be separate, but there can be networks in which teachers are trained together. Each teacher can translate the Israeli narrative into the conceptual language of his or her own group. I propose this so that we don’t fall into another situation in which the south of the country talks for twenty years about their security situation – and at the end, everyone just says to them, ‘Get on with it.’ We never got to know the real story in the south.”

Let’s talk about polarizing statements. How do you distinguish between polarizing statements – and legitimate statements of disagreement, or even criticism? Criticism is an essential tool of democracy. There are those who claim that even Eretz Nehederet [a popular Israeli TV show – A.I.] is polarizing.

“When the author Haim Be’er characterizes Religious Zionism as ‘a cancer on the nation’ – that’s polarization. In parlor meetings, I hear people from the liberal camp referring to the Haredi community as parasites, thieves, draft evaders, blood suckers. It’s crazy. It is clear to me that we need to reach agreement with the Haredi population regarding the issues of the IDF draft and teaching secular studies. However, there are also many incredible aspects of Haredi society. Let’s get to know them.

“There are polarizing statements on the other side, as well. For example, Haredim who say that they despise secular people; or a pejorative perception on the right of those in the secular-liberal camp. Why do we need this? It’s possible to disagree, to say: ‘I believe that your view of gender is dangerous to the cohesion of the traditional family.’ But when you demonize me, that paves the way for conspiracy theories.”

Jihad, Hamas – this is an idea, an ideology. How do you destroy an idea?

“It is possible to destroy ideas. The US did this in Japan after the Second World War. If you would have told someone in 1945 that the Japanese – who, in 1937, carried out the massacre and rape of Nanjing in China [hundreds of thousands of people were massacred and tens of thousands of women were raped – H.W.] were going to change, that person would have said, ‘No chance.’ But it happened. In other words, when you penetrate the bureaucratic and economic systems of a particular society, as well as its educational system, it becomes possible to develop a different way of thinking.

“With regard to Gaza: We must maintain control of the territory that is part of our security perimeter. But regarding the remaining area, the US – together with France, Germany, Saudi  Arabia, and yes, together with moderate Palestinian representatives – must start to build a new system. Not together with the Palestinian Authority, however, because at the moment – it is a disaster in and of itself.”

The International Court of Justice in The Hague currently is dealing with a charge of genocide brought by South Africa against Israel. But sometimes international public opinion about the war is more complex. A contact of mine overseas told me that he supports a cease fire. “The fact that you experienced a terrible massacre doesn’t justify your destroying and killing the residents of Gaza at such a large scale.”

“There’s some confusion about the ethics of this. The intention of Hamas was to carry out genocide. How do I know? Because genocide is an attempt to exterminate an ethical, national, or cultural group – even part of a group. Let’s tell the truth: If Hamas hadn’t been stopped on October 7, they would have murdered 10 million people. We are the ones who must protect ourselves against genocide. That is why we went to war.

“At the same time, I’ll say: I am pained by each Gazan child who has been killed. But we have no choice but to fight – for the sake of the Gazan child as well, because Hamas took their people hostage. If we do not destroy this evil – and this is what Truman and Roosevelt understood, too, during their time – it will destroy us and it will destroy their nation, too.

“I recently gave a lecture to professors at Harvard who support Israel and I explained it like this: When genocide takes place, the victim usually does not the ability to stop it. But in Gaza, if Sinwar and all the Hamas leadership give themselves up now and release all the Israeli hostages – it will be over.”

According to Heller, “If we end this war when Yahya Sinwar is still in power, this will be a difficult problem for the future of the Middle East, for the State of Israel, and also for the children of Gaza.”

As a historian, you’ve conducted extensive research into the sources of evil. What causes the growth of evil?

“I think it is a combination of societal structures that encourage conformity and obedience to authority – together with the fact that we all suffer from ongoing ethical conflicts. Another important aspect is how the individual perceives the other. I am afraid that we could be dragged into a type of extreme nationalism, the kind that separates out people as not being part of the family of humankind. Arabs are people. Muslims are people. Among them, are enemies that want to destroy us, enemies that we need to kill – without ascribing subhuman characteristics to human beings.”

In Heller’s words, the same way that evil can be found among “regular people” – so too can goodness. “They say about people who choose to do good – that they are angels. Perhaps they are not angels? Perhaps they are just regular people, who – in difficult circumstances – choose good over evil. That is what the hero of my doctorate, Zvi Spiegel [knicknamed the ‘twins’ father – A.I.], chose to do. He was an accountant who was assigned the job of looking after Mengele’s twins. He said, ‘I didn’t want to save, I wanted to survive.’ Slowly, he develops the soul of a savior.

“How sweet is the light” – from the Book of Kohelet (11:7); photo: Ein Karem, Jerusalem

“If the text of a Nukhba fighter, who bragged to his mother about murdering ten Jews, is a text of absolute evil,” says Heller, “then there is also a text from this war that represents absolute goodness. It is the text written by Shachar Fridman, of blessed memory, who was killed in the war. And in it he tells us, ‘Choose the good.’ All schools need to study this text, in Hebrew and Arabic. For example, here is one line of his text: ‘Be good people in your own way. Don’t let society dictate what it is that makes you into good people. Just try as hard as you can.'”

You can read the full Hebrew text here. This post was written with prayers for the safety of the Chayalim, the return of the hostages, the healing of the wounded, and the return of all of those evacuated back to their homes. Note that the opinions shared here are my own and have not been reviewed or approved by the leadership of the Rivon.